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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
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Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 900001 times)

kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #705 on: September 20, 2018, 02:57:12 PM »

The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".
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chipstern

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Nothing Is Written
« Reply #706 on: September 20, 2018, 03:12:59 PM »

Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche? 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 03:18:19 PM by chipstern »
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #707 on: September 20, 2018, 03:19:41 PM »

The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".

Durant only wants things easy.  Why would he ever come to NYC?  He is too thin-skinned.
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Kam

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Re: Nothing Is Written
« Reply #708 on: September 20, 2018, 03:23:04 PM »

Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.
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chipstern

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Re: Nothing Is Written
« Reply #709 on: September 20, 2018, 03:24:32 PM »

Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.

Watermelons



Pass
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 05:52:54 PM by chipstern »
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #710 on: September 20, 2018, 03:29:16 PM »

If you invest in people you don't pass on Jimmy Butler.

You want his blueprint on your team.

Whats going down in Minny says more about Andrew Wiggins than Jimmy Butler.
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #711 on: September 20, 2018, 03:41:59 PM »

Carmelo was a better investment. 

[COUGH]

Yes.  The benefits continue to accrue. 

Lordy. 

Knicks fans want the big tits and the quick fixes. 

Danny Ainge & Brad Stevens

25-57

40-42

48-34

53-29

55-27

Draft and trades. 

Patient.  Calculated.  PATIENT.  Built A System.  Built A Culture. 

First big free agent signing?

Season Four. 

4

Al Horford.  Right player.  Right time.  Right fit. 

Season Five.  Gordon Hayward.  Kyrie Irving Trade. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  Wonderful PLAYER. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  MOOT POINT.  Thibs ain't entertaining any of the bullshit "fans" and "media" are floating. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  FIRST YOU ESTABLISH A CULTURE.  A WINNING CULTURE.  A SUSTAINABLE CULTURE.  Then you plug in talent via the free agent market. 

The Carmelo Anthony Trade set back this franchise a decade. 

A great scorer.  Without a doubt. 

But the money we spent, and the draft picks we surrendered, left us with no room for prime free agents, nor for an infusion of youth, nor for complementary pieces, such as, oh,  A POINT GUARD. 

And of course, as a preamble to the Carmelo, we must get Carmelo feeding frenzy, because CARMELO WANTED A MAX, and we were unwilling to risk free agency or him ending up with the Nyets (gee, that argument has a familiar ring), we gutted our roster, having already gutted our roster in a pyrrhic pursuit of LeBron, thanks to kindly Uncle Donnie, pausing only to pass on all of the available point guards only to draft Jordan Hill (CUE Kiid, Stage Left, with passionate defense of an underrated player, no longer in the league). 

So.

In answer to your query, Brother Kam.

If Butler is available next summer?  You bet.  Let's talk. 

But a panic move now, passing as a foundational move, when we have seen this approach blow up in our fucking faces time and time and time again? 

NO
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 03:44:14 PM by chipstern »
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #712 on: September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM »

It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?
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chipstern

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Big Trades
« Reply #713 on: September 20, 2018, 03:49:15 PM »

Walt Bellamy & Howie Komives

We gave up a Hall Of Fame Center and our starting point guard. 

Serious assets. 

HOWEVER...

We had established a positive culture. 

Trading Walt opened up the 5-spot for Willis. 

Trading Komives opened up the point for Clyde. 

Dave DeB moved in to the 4-spot, in an established system, where a chemistry had been established, young talent nurtured and evolved. 

Results?

Two championships. 

GROW UP KNICKS FANS. 
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #714 on: September 20, 2018, 03:51:02 PM »

It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 



PS: What assets did the Lakers give up to grab LeBron?  ANSWER: None, oh, save for some players they didn't reup to create cap space, such as Randle.  Did they gut their team to trade for LeBron, OR DID THEY FUCKING WAIT UNTIL HE WAS FUCKING AVAILABLE WITHOUT SURRENDERING ANY ASSETS.  Kiid is comfortable giving up Frank in a trade.  If I ask the same of Lonzo Ball, Kiid will caution me that they are levels apart.  Okay.  Still, be that as it may, hierarchies being what they are, Lonzo is a foundational piece.  We will find out soon if Frank is a foundational piece.  BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 06:35:31 PM by chipstern »
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Nagel

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #715 on: September 20, 2018, 06:58:42 PM »

butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 07:04:21 PM by Nagel »
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #716 on: September 20, 2018, 07:52:33 PM »

butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>

Nagel cautioning forbearance. 

Film at 11. 

And I know Kiid will go into MOCK OVERDRIVE, but guess what.  This is Kristaps Porzingis' Team. 

Phil Jackson?

GONE.

Carmelo Anthony?

GONE.

Jeff Hornacek?

GONE. 

Frank Ntilikina?  Kevin Knox? 

On Board. 

Again, no one is turning their noses up at Jimmy Butler. 

But this is Kristaps Porzingis team.  He is our bell cow.  When he and Hardaway were grooving last fall, we were in the running for the playoffs.  When they were out, lottery here we come. 

Regarding free agents? 

How many times in the past twenty years have we been left at the altar by free agents, or had our free agent saviors blow up in our face. 

We gutted our team to make a run at LeBron.  We gutted our team to accommodate Carmelo. 

We are now at ground zero with an ACTUAL REBUILD & COMMITTMENT TO YOUTH. 

You have to go back to the 1960s to see the Knicks bottoming out, and rebuilding with YOUTH, in the person of Bill Bradley, Cazzie Russell, Phil Jackson, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dave Stallworth, Mike Riordan. 

Whether you think KP is the second coming or a REACH--a projection of our hopes and prayers--he remains the most impactful player on this roster. 

It is in the Knicks best interest to build a roster about him, and let the youth, from elders Kanter and Hardaway, to wash out reclamation projects Burke, Mudiay, Vonleh and Hezonja, to have the opportunity to compete and make a case for themselves as KNICKS. 

It is not tanking, but not unlike the Celtics in the Stevens Era, or the Lakers under Walton, there is a willingness to TAKE YOUR LUMPS, and let your young talent play through the slaps and beat downs, learning and earning through taking their lumps...purposeful...patient...

I do not necessarily agree with Nages that we are a high lottery lock, but you never know. 

http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

Zion Williamson intrigues me.  A freak of nature.  Could be the second coming of Larry Johnson. 

Be that as it may, there is talent out there.  There is talent coming to training camp, and it makes more sense--TO ME ANYWAY--to allow the process to play out, for hard-nosed competition to ensue, and for the kids we have on site to feel as if they are actually competing for something, not merely as placeholders for the next big-titted free agent to excite our more impatient fans. 

Credit Fizz with being a bullshit artist if you like, but the idea that he put forth, wherein free agency doesn't mean a damn thing, unless we FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE OUR CULTURE. 

Why gut our team now to import Jimmy Butler to A LOSING TEAM.  He's on a team with the likes of TOWNS & WIGGINS, to former #1 picks, big time talents, and he was not pleased in playing WITH THEM?  Hello?  WAKE UP CALL. 

Now, just for the sake of argument.  If come the summer of 2019, KP is healthy and ready to come back strong, we have a #1 pick (possibly a significant player), and some combination of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Hezonja, Vonleh, Mudiay, Burke, Kanter and Hardaway have made a case for themselves, and learned how to play OLD SCHOOL KNICK DEFENSE and learned to play an aggressive brand of offense, then we will have a much better idea of who is a keeper. 

What's more, a potential free agent such as Butler (I honestly do not see Irving leaving the Celtics) could look at a team like the Knicks and think, "Hey, the skill-set and aggression and defensive intensity and experience and competitive tenacity I bring to the party would make for a great fit...I LIKE WHAT I SEE IN THEIR KIDS."

Well, that is a horse of a different fire department.  A BELL COW who can give us big minutes at SF-SG, and A LEADER on the Knicks, and not necessarily THE LEADER.  A piece that fits.  A player who could make the likes of KP and Knox better, and vicea versa.  That makes sense. 

Looking at the free agent class for 2019, Butler, Irving and Leonard would top my wish list. 

Not sure how realistic any of them are. 

Kevin Durant.

HAHAHA

Tell me about the rabbits, George. 

Be patient Knicks fans.  This is what an actual re-build looks like. 
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #717 on: September 20, 2018, 09:16:38 PM »

It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets
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chipstern

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NO SALE
« Reply #718 on: September 20, 2018, 09:31:31 PM »

It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets

EARTH TO KAM...

Randle they let walk.  Nance on a rookie deal, but Clarkson was a long term contract, with 12 million-13 million due for next two seasons.

With Ingram and Kuzma, Ball and Hart, Nance and Clarkson and Randle were utterly redundant. 

They received two expiring contracts in Channing Frye and Isaiah Thomas.  THEY LET BOTH WALK. 

They did not give up a #1 pick, they received a #1 pick, which they used to take Wagner.

Ergo, you're spinning your wheels, dude. 

Assets? 

Uh huh. 

Road Kill is more like it. 

THEY GOT LEBRON WITHOUT GIVING UP ANYTHING. 

Let alone a #1 Pick.  Let alone Frank Ntiliknia, Lonzo Ball.   
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:34:33 PM by chipstern »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #719 on: September 20, 2018, 09:41:29 PM »

heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.
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