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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 57238 times)

Nagel

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #765 on: September 23, 2018, 12:45:01 PM »

usually the owner rules from where i come from.  if he wants Butler gone then Butler is gone.

Clippers seems like a good destination.

personally trading a #1 pick next year when despite chip's rose colored glasses and Frank is a really bad idea.

the kid is 20 years old and already shows true NBA defense.  we can't wait on him?  especially when the smart thing to do is let KP heal next year.  frankly if he gets 20 games i would be happy. that is the real reason why we are a high lottery pick.  if KP was fully healthy and here all year I would never say that.

 However he is as chip accurately says  the guy who makes NY run.  it's his team,

Jimmy Butler is 29 years old. i'm tired of giving guys that age big money when we have young talent like KP, Knox, Frank, Next year's lotto pick , Robinson and money for a younger free agent.

count me out on a deal unless it's for Hardaway straight up.  i guess that tells you how i feel about hardaway.  also allows us to get out of hardaway's deal and not sign butler next year if we choose.  giving us plenty of space next year.  now if Irving needs Butler to come ,then we have him. So a  different story.  simply for a former #1 pick (Frank) and a future #1 pick like next year .  no thank you.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 12:48:10 PM by Nagel »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #766 on: September 23, 2018, 02:00:40 PM »

Why do you believe your pessimistic self over what has been reported on Porzingis (re:  injury)?
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Frank is a legit 6'6" now?
« Reply #767 on: September 23, 2018, 02:02:01 PM »

Frank Ntilikina, PG: Has grown 1 Ļ/₂ inches since last season, but Knicks still listing him at same height, perhaps by his wishes.

Happens a lot

Antetokompo is now 7-3 1/4
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #768 on: September 23, 2018, 02:04:39 PM »

Oh come on, Chip. Once Butler gets over this minor ripple of career turbulence Iím sure the are no possible circumstances where he would trouble management or disrupt chemistry on a team again.

We should probably mortgage our future to get him. Thereís a thought.

Come on, man - didnt you hear?  Jimmy is 29 going on 35.

heh
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #769 on: September 23, 2018, 02:40:00 PM »

Butler was part of the rift in Chicago too.
Again having to do with not getting along with younger ENTITLED players.
And the Knix of course are loaded with ... younger players.

Young guys who slack on defense (KAT got killed by Capella in the playoffs) aren't in favor with Butler.


Or me.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:43:12 PM by Kam »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #770 on: September 23, 2018, 02:56:10 PM »

Need to learn to mentor, lead, show leadership -- not cause a huge rift in 2 different lockerrooms in successive years.
In CHI, Rondo stood up for the young pups against Butler's dismissal.

As for Towns, I remember LeBron playing chumpy D his first few years in the League.  But I think Wiggins is more the problem there.  His effort on both ends comes and goes.  At least KAT mostly dominates on O.


Coltrane Radio until the day is done:
http://wkcr.streamguys1.com/live.m3u
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thebizneverloses

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #771 on: September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM »

Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #772 on: September 23, 2018, 05:11:28 PM »

Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

Maybe the roster spot is needed.
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Nagel

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #773 on: September 23, 2018, 06:16:11 PM »

Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

could not agree more. 
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chipstern

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Your Honor, I Rest My Case
« Reply #774 on: September 23, 2018, 07:04:57 PM »

Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted
. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

A simplistic overreach.

A venal sin, and a minor cerebellum synapse.   

This too shall pass.  More of that anon. 

In a sense, I shared your focus on retaining Noah, not for cap/trade bait, but to mentor our young bigs and to fill in behind Kanter.  Not so much as a trade chip. 

For Mills and Perry, clearly their sense of things was that if Noah INSISTED ON PLAYING TIME, as a foundational piece for him remaining, it would be uncomfortable for ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.  As it was last season when Hornacek unduly wounded his professional pride.  Noah was ready to make a contribution. 

Not a dumb move, but one that was not limited in its focus to the Knicks needs, but to Noah's, and an ACT OF SIMPLE RESPECT.  I dare say Perry has been cooing into the ears of Noah's reps and trying to foster a compromise where Noah is able to seek out a soft landing portal before training camp begins, gives back probably a shade more money than he would've back last spring, and Knicks prune away an aged vet, who surely has some game remaining, and hopefully finds a nice match in the next few weeks. 

Didn't get back enough cap space to suit you?

Hey, they didn't try and set Noah's ass on fire, like Phil did with Melo, as a precursor to him going out the door. 

[Porzingis]
Kanter
Kornet
Robinson
Vonleh

Even with KP MIA For 2018-2019, that is four bigs who can give you minutes at C-PF.  Four YOUNG BIGS I hasten to add. 

For which Noah does not qualify.

So, really Brother B, THERE IS HOPE FOR MILLS, as this is consistent with all of the other moves you thought were prescient. 

For now, Fizdale still speaks of Coutney among the living.  And with Noah gone, less pressing need for a slow boat to China.  More likely with minutes to showcase Lee's more reasonable contract, skill-set and physical upside, between now and February, a deal might be made for a player with an expiring in the summer of 2019. 

Mills is pulling the trigger on Noah now for roughly the same reasons Steve & Scott are not bellying up to the bar, boys, and making a play for Jimmy Butler.  Because with KP on the mend, their is a rational reason to really let him heal prudently, maybe for all of 2018-2019, which is why 2018-2019 has been consecrated for THE FIZZ KIDS.  That is our roster.  Many free agent considerations with our cap space for all of our free agents. 

And as so prudent a handicapper as yourself has projected 20 wins, in a rosy projection of us having a roll of the dice for Holy Zion, well, it ain't TANKING If You Are TRYING To WIN.  Which we most definitely are, but but you see, Coach has carte blanche to let the FIZZ KIDS compete, get thrown into the cauldron, and TO TAKE THEIR FUCKING LUMPS, to learn how to win, how to finish, how to play the team game, HOW TO PLAY DEFENSE, even if it means losing two out of every three games.  If by next April we playing .500 ball, that is progress, and it ain't tanking, and their are no meaningful veteran players on the roster, save for Lee & Thomas, which is why, given the PRIORITY of doing a actual factual reboot with youth for the first time in 50 years, YOU DON'T GO AFTER BUTLER NOW.  Wrong cat to bond with youth, and what the fuck, if next summer we have a healthy KP and a ripe draft choice, and a clearer idea of what we have on our roster and in G-League, that THEN it might make sense to seek out one maybe two moderately priced vets, and top tier vet...such as fucking Jimmy Butler.

Mills & Perry are not allowing themselves to be stampeded by a fan feeding frenzy for what Fizz characterized as the shiny object. 

CULTURE FIRST IN 2018-2019

Free Agent Destination in 2019-2020

Sounds pretty fucking purposeful and well thought out to me. 

Your theory presupposes that Mills is too stoopid to learn from his mistakes, and he has made plenty of them, beginning with Isiah Thomas.  But Steve was a college point guard for Coach What's His Name with his system at Princeton.  So he ain't just a suit.  And we have a roster full of busts looking to be overachievers.  Motivation.  What a narrative.  Players to root for, such as Mudiay and Burke and Hezonja and Vonleh.  And our Kiddie Korps of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Kornet.  Me thrilled.

The last thing Godfather Fizz needed at this time was the distraction of adding a $40,000,000 concielerge in the form of Jimmy Butler, when he is trying to turn Kevin, Mitchel and Frank in to capos. 

Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer. 

The Salary Cap is NOT David Fizdale's focus. 

Player Development Is The Mantra, And Mills has given him a whole year to EMBRACE THE GROWING PAINS. 

PRETTY FUCKING SMART, if you ask me.  Noah was a distraction with two years left.  Lee and Thomas also have two years left, but they are role players, and as such, not a distraction. 

Whereas Noah didn't fit the pedigree of a role player with four bigs to fast track. 

STRETCH. 

So their's the door, Norton, for all of these off with their heads pronouncements. 

Brother Biz, Nagel, you are going to be very happy campers. 

Your NEW, Low Expectation Knicks.



The small victories, Ralph. 

Signed

Rosie The PomPom Gurl
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 07:12:15 PM by chipstern »
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chipstern

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Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
« Reply #775 on: September 23, 2018, 08:07:21 PM »

Know what team makes sense for Jimmy Butler?

Miami. 

Leaves the Western Conference for the East.

Miami has more of a veteran roster.  Butler would be a good fit. 

What could they offer. 

Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

Miami has Dragic at PG.

Dwayne Wade, Dion Walters, Josh Richardson and Wayne Ellington at SG.

Butler at SF and SG.

James Johnson at SF

Whiteside, Bam Adebayo, Kelly Olynyk, Udonis Haslam at C-PF. 

Nice mix of youth, mid-youth and vets.  Better match for Butler than the Knicks.  And vicea versa. 

Gives Thibs offensive and defensive pieces to slot in at SG and SF in a rotation with Wiggins.  Tyler can rock a bit of point as well.  And Justis is Thibs type of ball player.  Less pressure to score in their offense.  And maybe Wiggins would be more comfortable at SG than SF.  Winslow gives him and Thibs some options. 

Anyway, that from someone who foresaw Melo for McDermott and Kanter (and the #2 that produced Robinson).

[In portals of my mind anyway.  Jumped out at me on REAL GM Trade Checker.] 

Not as good a call as Biz identifying Knox as our #1, but then, we aspire to greatness. 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:17:53 PM by chipstern »
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Kam

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Noah Fence Joakim
« Reply #776 on: September 23, 2018, 09:39:46 PM »

I will be happy when Noah's Knick Arc is over.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #777 on: September 23, 2018, 10:15:49 PM »

Ark Saga, 2018-19

If Noah is not going to be used you run the risk he could become a real dick, a nuisance.

So you are CREATING the situation - and can choose to let it simmer and do possible damage to your young team - or show the man the door -

Plan B may be wisest, no matter how it makes the team look short term.  Rather than saying, "F that, man - I aint lettin him dictate....", you make the proper call and release the man.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #778 on: September 24, 2018, 03:26:16 AM »

Reminder: if we stretch Noah and strike out in 2019 FA pursuit, we can pay off the remainder of his salary that year and have no lingering cap hit. This may also be something we can exceed the cap and tax thresholds to do.

We do need the roster spot. Bye bye JoNo.
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bodiddley

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Re: Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
« Reply #779 on: September 24, 2018, 08:41:40 AM »

Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

MIA reportedly charging hard after Butler.

That would be a great deal for MIA.
They get out of Tyler's ridiculous contract, and Winslow is looking to get paid next year as an RFA.
And with Butler their draft pick will might be around 20 or so.

MINN gets some talent, but just two role players.  And a pick.
Enough?  Well, they have a short deadline and who knows what other offers will come in.
Butler rather a Sell low due to his attitude and desire for a max deal next Summer.

Apparently Miniapple would rather move Butler to the East rather than to a playoff contender in the West, such as da Clips.
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