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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

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Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 899785 times)

facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #960 on: October 04, 2018, 01:49:06 AM »

Kurcus and LeVert the most intriguing and impactful Nets. Russell is almost average which is not good enough at all. He should play behind Dinwiddie and try to be meaningful against second units.

Mario and Manny are the least together of the projected rotation guys. Baker is clearly ahead of Mudiay if no one else. Dotson should have all of Mudiay’s minutes. Trier should have either Baker or Mudiay’s spot. Baker at least makes defensive plays between missed shots and turnovers so I’m voting dump Mudiay. Allen can fill the two-way spot.

Lance and KKnox can can eat the regular season skill forward minutes till Mario gets under control.

Kanter and Robinson are a very nice tandem. When we add KP that will be one hell of a frontcourt.

Backcourt pecking order so far for those who’ve played is Frank, Trier, Dotson, Hardaway, Burke, Allen, Baker, Mudiay. Baker and Allen are actually pretty close.

I can’t wait to see Frank, Knox, and Robinson together. That’s 3/5 of our death lineup so Fizz might be saving it for the regular season. Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Dotson (or Trier), and Frank.

Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #961 on: October 04, 2018, 02:59:18 AM »

I like LaVert.
Trier has a LaVert game with better jump shooting.
Trier quite a good 1-on-1 scorer,
Useful when you have a guy off the bench who can get his own shot.

I found it interesting how both Trier and Burke were trying to ram their shoulder into guys on layup attempts.  With mixed results.  Trier once knocked LaVert completely off the play.  Wonder if that's a point of emphasis by the Knix for the Guards.  Fizz said he was going to drill on finishing.  Seems like something Mud could use, as he's strong (and has trouble finishing).  Less good for small Burke.

Speaking of Mud, he kind of looks lost.  Needs to play up to his NBA years.  And is Zonja a mistake player? 

MitchRob is raw but interesting.
Blocks some shots,  Fouls a bit.
Needs to be ready for dish off passes inside.
As a 10 min a night backup C, he should be useful.

Kanter looked in midseason form.
For Nets, DMC looked disinterested in pre-season.
Dudley looks chubby.
I forgot they added Edavis.  Very solid role player.  Good pickup.

Bad all-around game for Tim.  Just pre-season, but his D was inattentive, and did nada on O.

Frank did well.  Good D, nice drive-n-dunk, a 3 ball.


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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #962 on: October 04, 2018, 03:14:37 AM »

Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?

Darrell Walker?
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #963 on: October 04, 2018, 03:18:52 AM »

Breen in midseason (homer) form
"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"

After having trouble scoring in the 1Q (11 points through the first 10 mins), they did erupt.  Plus when you're with Clyde you tend to slip in creative words.

Actually what I like is that the Knick broadcasters aren't big homers like most others.  They mention Knick flaws and praise the other teams good plays/players. 
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Pharoah

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #964 on: October 04, 2018, 11:33:41 AM »

    Game two has come and gone, leaving us with a lot of hype for the youngsters and a sinking feeling about some of the reclamation projects. Usually, you get rookies who visibly appear to need time to get comfortable but our guys have chips on their shoulders. These kids should get minutes, especially while Hezonja and Mudiay are making MORE mistakes with their own opportunities. The Knicks have their young core and every effort should be made to focus on it. On the skeptical side, this was an iso-heavy and one pass before a FGA offense. I like the "anyone can attack" unpredictable offense concept; but it's not unpredictable when guys are just taking turns attacking a basic pick and roll. Game one was much more fluid and Iso Zo was obnoxiously effective so withhold judgement but let's keep an eye on that.

The Standouts:
    Allonzo Trier: 20 points in the 1st half matched with NBA caliber players all along (Crabbe, Levert and Carroll with Allen in the paint). Trier isolated A LOT, but that's because no one could stop him from getting to the rim. My theme for this kid has been his ability to get to the line and it showed again (8/8 on free throws). He's not without flaws. Defensively, he shines at times but has lapses that pushed him to 5 more fouls. I also don't trust his vision or passing; though he did seem mindful of passing, it felt like his mind was made up to pass before the play unfolded and that led to some shaky passes. But this is an NBA scorer through and through with serious upside and I'm ready to see the Knicks make space for him and sign him for real to get bird rights. 25 points, 1 assist, 4 boards in 26 minutes; he also flashed the chase down block ability that Fiz kept tracking.

    Frank Ntilikina: By the time Frank punched a Spencer Dinwiddie driving lay-up attempt into the third row; he'd already dunked on Allen Crabbe, hit a running jumper off a spin into the lane and knocked down a three pointer. The youngster showed flashes of scoring at every level while taking his defense to a higher level than his already high standard. He floated in and out of ball handling duty again, which was frustrating because the Knicks looked better when Frank brought the ball up period. Every other ball handler seemed too focused on scoring, Frank would throw a simple swing pass and suddenly the defense was off balance so the second ball handler could effectively attack. 9 points, 2 boards, an assist, 2 blocks and a steal doesn't do justice to how much impact he had as he ratcheted his intensity up...big time game and he's not much older than Pablo Sanchez was in Backyard Baseball.

    Enes Kanter: I've come to accept that Kanter is who he is. He's a flawed defender that could use a rim protector at PF to cover for his slow feet and forgettable timing. But once you get past that, he's a dominant post player who really does eat up the glass and the defensive effort has at least been there. 22 points and 20 boards...that's undeniable. He gives these guys a lot of second chances and wore down an undersized front line. I like him off the bench moreso than starting, but if he's gonna drop 20/20 games then I may have to re-evaluate even as a defense snob. Oh yeah; he actually attempted a couple of three pointers and I don't know how I feel about it.

    The rest of cast:
    Mitch: The iso heavy play of the ball handlers meant we didn't get the rim running chaos (a sprain ankle after 10 minutes of play didn't help). In spite of that, his presence as a rim protector was evident out the gate. He ran down and blocked a three point attempt just like Summer League and even saved the ball from going out of bounds. 2 points, 2 boards and 2 blocks but with 4 fouls in that 10 minute span. Having him planted behind Frank up top gives the Knicks promise as a tough, defensive team for the foreseeable future.

    Knox: Another victim of everybody taking turns looking for their own, this was a subdued performance for the big lottery pick. 7 points, 4 boards, 1 assist, steal and block to 2 TO's while shooting 3/6 from the field. His three misses were all 3 pointers and his jumper from range will take time to develop consistency but he's got plenty of time and seems willing to work on it. More importantly, he flashed some really solid defense at times and having two-way potential is big for someone with such a versatile game. I'm still in awe at Knox being able to grab a board and take it coast to coast at 6'10 and even younger than Frank.

    Burke: He made the most of his touches but the share the ball mechanics of this system means that he's not able to be in 24/7 attack mode. 9 points, 3 assists, 3 boards and 2 steals in 19 minutes but for some reason the performance felt forgettable. His defensive limitations are what they are and he's producing plenty to outweigh that. I can't explain my lack of enthusiasm for him other than that he mostly vanishes as an offball guard and the system places him off ball way more than last year.

    Lance Thomas: I'll take that 0/3 performance over him forcing things every single time out. Lance had 2 boards and 1 assist in 18 minutes but brought his intangibles for the second straight game. His 1 assist came from driving the baseline with his head up and that head up part has been missing in the past. Anyway, I'm feeling positive vibes for the man as he looks like he'll get the right role for a change...15 mpg and not going over 20 where his flaws begin to really show up.

    THJ: 9 pts, 1 assist, 2 boards, 3 TOs on 3/11 from the field. I'm hoping it's cobwebs. The times when he tries to assert himself, it's not working out and he just hasn't gelled with the system yet imo. I'm trying to be patient...but he should drive more.

    Mario: You know when someone shows up to a pick-up game in a full team uniform with an arm sleeve, wristband, knee pads and every other accessory...that guy is gonna try to do too much when he gets the rock guaranteed. That's where we've found ourselves with Hezonja after two games. He's pressing and trying to show skills that he doesn't really have, was that a sky hook? Did it touch the rim? Is Mario watching the ball handler while his own man just roams to open spots on the floor? Look, I'm a big fan of this guy's potential and even as he tries too hard there are flashes of ball handling, athleticism and ability but he HAS to figure out his limitations and stay motivated on BOTH sides of the floor.

    Mudiay: If Mario's struggles can teach us anything, it's that sometimes less is more. For Mudiay that motto holds true. Less FGA's, less reckless trips to the lane with no idea how he's going to finish, less time with the ball in his hands, less minutes...all of that should be beneficial for everybody. 2 pts on 5 FGA's, 2 boards and 1 assist to 2 TO's in fifteen minutes. Trier is pushing for a roster spot and Mudiay is looking like the most cuttable player right now outside of his contract being kinda pricy to just waive.

    Vonleh: In five minutes, this dude got a LOT done. Not all good, not all bad, just a lot. 2 pts, 2 boards, a block, 2 TO's and 3 FGA's in just five minutes. Honestly hard to evaluate because it was a high motor guy that was also pressing with limited opportunity.

    Dotson: Continues to be the standout of the garbage time guys and I'd love to see him replace some of Mudiay's minutes with Frank. I really want to watch how his motor holds up with the actual rotation guys because there's been promising signs through 2 games. 4/4 from the field, 8 points, 2 boards and 1 assist with a TO over 9 minutes.

    Baker: In 8 minutes he knocked down a three, tallied 2 assists, got 2 steals and injected the game with his typical brand of physicality to make up for lack of athleticism. He plays a likeable style of ball, especially for a Knicks fan, but can he be more than a bench depth guy? Not sure about that.

    Hicks: Hicks looks better than last year, but still G-League level. It's good to see a bit of progression though.

    Allen: I'll say this...I was sleepy, the garbage unit was in and I was focused on the guys that will make the roster; but he was still active enough to notice him. Good effort.

    Closing thought: How about those Yanks? I had to watch the Knicks game late because I stuck with New York's only playoff team. But with all the rebuilds going on, we may be on the verge of a resurgence of NY sports and the Knicks seem like they're finally in a position to build long term success.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #965 on: October 04, 2018, 12:30:36 PM »

Pharaoh, we watched the same game though you gave a much better rundown.

I largely agree with your assessment of the current state of our players.

Based on what we’ve seen so far, this is the depth chart among our healthy players. I’ll offset the ones who should be out of the rotation till they improve. This leaves out KP & Lee.

Kanter Robinson    Kornet
Thomas Vonleh.    Hezonja
Knox                                   Mudiay
Dotson Hardaway  Baker
Ntilikina Trier        Burke

Cut or trade Mudiay &/or Lee, promote Trier. Get Allen on the other two-way and keep polishing Hicks.

Those are the moves I want to see from the brain trust.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #966 on: October 04, 2018, 12:33:36 PM »

If we cut Mudiay and plug in Lee as the backup SF till Mario gets his head right, we might be better off than we could get through trades.
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chipstern

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Mario & Mudiay
« Reply #967 on: October 04, 2018, 12:39:10 PM »

I saw what you saw, Pha...

However. 

Mario is a knock down three point shooter, and in the past two games I do not recall him getting a single look, open or otherwise. 

Trying too hard? 

Perhaps.  He is a willing passer...pressing. 

Mudiay?  Hard to get a read.  I like his energy and his aggression, but he is also pressing. 

Timmy?  Confounding.  When he is aggressive, going to the hoop, he makes good plays, and potentially creates opportunities for his team mates.  He is also pressing, vis a vis his intercontinental Ballistic game, and I saw a tendency to swallow the ball, and again, take questionable shots, whereas Trier, a rookie, shows more acumen for creating in the midrange and off the dribble. 

Knicks defensive effort is encouraging. 

Are pushing the tempo, as per Fizdale. 

Rebounding is suspect. 

Ball movement, so fluid in Game 1, took a dive in game two. 

I suspect Friday night could get...dicey. 

Still, absorbing a good ass-kicking might be useful in terms of a re-boot, and refocusing on fundamentals. 

We shall see. 

Davis most definitely a worthy challenge for my man Enes, who didn't face Howard in Game One.  The Nyets Allen is a very nice player, with a lot of upside in the paint for Brooklyn, but Enes had his way with him.  And in terms of defense, well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 22 & 20 still represent a big time performance in the NBA, irrespective of the match-up. 

Trier & Dotson presenting Timmy with a palpable challenge, and a template for how to get it done. 
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chipstern

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Facil
« Reply #968 on: October 04, 2018, 12:45:00 PM »

No way do I see the Knicks cutting Mudiay. 

I don't believe that is Fizdale's M.O. 

Also, I mean, two preseason games?  Off with his head?  I don't think the Knicks invested all of this time just to jettison him.  Wishful thinking. 

Still, Trier and Dotson and Baker giving Fizz a lot to think about.  Timmy, too. 

Be interesting to see how Perry finesses all of this going forward. 

Lee is a solid pro, and would be a worthy addition to any number of teams. 

Pulling that off, though, could be tricky. 

Lee and Noah the elephants in the room. 
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #969 on: October 04, 2018, 01:19:18 PM »

Fizz, asked about Trier earning a full time roster spot said something like “roster spots are for guys that earn them. So far, Trier is earning a spot.”

I hope this means that guys who aren’t earning spots are moved or dumped  to make space for guys who do rather than tell the better players that they earned it but don’t get promoted because of short money owed to a guy that shows up less on the court.

Timmy is with Baker looking up at Trier and Dotson.

Baker had some ugly ass turnovers against the Nyets
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #970 on: October 04, 2018, 01:22:47 PM »

Mario has incredible tools. If he’d signed a multiyear deal or given a team option, I’d say play him into the flow and accept higher volume mistakes and work to reduce them over time. He’s here on a one year. It’s on him right now to clean up his game. To a lesser extent this also goes for Vonleh.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #971 on: October 04, 2018, 01:25:58 PM »

Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #972 on: October 04, 2018, 01:30:37 PM »

Watched a lot of this one

Will go back and watch game 1

And watched the postgame with Fizzy, plus the preseason panel with Fiz, Perry and Mills

I think what we have to remember when projecting minutes is that Fiz isnt going to go by just the preseason games.  He sees these guys every day in pratice - and despite what he says there was a pecking order coming in.

That said - ready for anything in terms of court time with these guys.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #973 on: October 04, 2018, 01:32:21 PM »

Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY

Tim is not a bad enough basketball player that you need to get a Jimmer-Ammo hardon for him. Calm down.

———

Tim is an eighth or ninth man on a good team, a sixth or seventh man on a decent team, and a starter on a lotto team, not that he can’t further improve.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:35:46 PM by facilitatorn »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #974 on: October 04, 2018, 02:17:20 PM »

I'm not what a Courtly-Muddy trade gets you.  But they are excess.

Alternatively, Knix could think about moving a Tim-Mud package.
A team needing 3-point shooting might want Tim.  Though the SG position has solidified leaguewide, so not sure how many teams would be interested.
For NYK, Courtly can stay on as a steady vet (along with Lance*) and we'd potentially free up money going forward.  I'm sure Knix aren't at that point yet, but might be after another half season of evaluating Tim.  Courtly can start at SG, and we'd still have Trier, Dotson & Baker as backup SG's.  You heard it here first . . .


* speaking of Lance and Iggy, Lance had what I call an Iggy boxscore.  Limited stats and a big on court +.  For Lance, 0 points and a team leading +18. 
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