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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[thebizneverloses]

(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.

How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

[kidcarter8]

If you say so.......

I would be perfectly happy with whoever wants to come on top of what we have now and (Barrett).  Can't get too giddy about having the fortune to land Zion.

Dennis
RJ Barrett
Knox
XXXX
Jordan

Frank
Mitch
add
add
add

Hoping the X is Durant of course -
and we then have $$ still available to improve the lot (maybe including taking back Vonleh and matching on Dotson)

[thebizneverloses]

If we don't trade any of our youth for Davis and sign Durant and don't waive Dotson, we'd still have about $36 million left over ($33 with Trier retained). DeAndre will cost in the $5-8m range, same with Vonleh. You can dream a bit bigger than this year's terrible team plus Durant.

Moreover, Durant is coming if he's inheriting the same squad plus RJ Barrett. He needs another potential 2020 all-star to sign. Kyrie, Kemba, Butler, someone else has to be coming with him.

This almost certainly means Vonleh is gone, btw.

[kidcarter8]

If we don't trade any of our youth for Davis and sign Durant and don't waive Dotson, we'd still have about $36 million left over ($33 with Trier retained). DeAndre will cost in the $5-8m range, same with Vonleh. You can dream a bit bigger than this year's terrible team plus Durant.

Right - like I said

7 number ones has a nice ring to it.  Especially with 2 max free agents.

But go on with your Davis envy.....

[Kam]

(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.

How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

[thebizneverloses]

I don't think Burke is part of the plan, but Dotson I kinda like. I'd sacrifice him to move either Courtly or Timmy, because the former isn't useful for us and the pain of the latter's contract outweighs his utility. But I'm not optimistic.


Let's play "Who says no?":

Memphis or Toronto?
Marc Gasol & Ivan Rabb for Jonas Valunciunas, CJ Miles, and two second round picks (Grizz can't take back any more money without ending up in the luxury tax, although they could use Delon Wright. This would be Memphis admitting Gasol has low trade value. Raps would have to convince one of Gasol or Ibaka to come off the bench)

Sacramento or Washington?
Zach Randolph, Iman Shumpert, Kosta Koufos (all expiring) for Otto Porter, Ian Mahinmi and a second round pick (clears >$42 million in cap space for Washington next year, when Wall's contract spikes, and takes them out of the luxury tax this year. Sacto upgrades Shumpert in time for a playoff run, but at a heavy financial price)

San Antonio or Memphis?
Patty Mills, Pau Gasol and Derrick White for Mike Conley and Ivan Rabb (San An rarely makes in-season deals, but Conley-Derozan-Aldridge are all on the same timeline, and Conley just feels like a Pop type player. White is the draw for Memphis, who only have their pick protected top-8 this year and top-6 next year)

Boston or Orlando?
Gordon Hayward and Terry Rozier for Aaron Gordon and DJ Augustin (Boston gets out of the tax and more importantly clarifies the roles going forward for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Marcus Morris gets squeezed, despite an excellent year, but he's a UFA this year. This presumes Boston doesn't want to pay Rozier. Augustin would be an offensive upgrade, and Gordon would be useful as a scorer who didn't need plays run for him. As for Orlando, they'd have to love Rozier as ready to become a Patrick Beverley type starter, but they could think playoffs next year if Hayward improves even slightly)

Philadelphia or New Orleans?
Markelle Fultz, Wilson Chandler and the Miami Heat 2021 unprotected #1 for Nikola Mirotic, Etwaun Moore and a second round pick (NOLA gives up this year, since everyone else knows they aren't making the playoffs, but gives them a roll of the dice for next year in Fultz, either with Davis or as part of post-Davis core with Jrue and Randle or whatever treasure they secure for Davis. The Miami pick is a major trade asset. Philly gets much needed shooting, and perhaps makes themselves the team to beat in the East)

I kinda called it.

[thebizneverloses]

(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.

How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

[Kam]

(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.

How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

[thebizneverloses]

If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

Exactly.

Leaving the Warriors happens if he's happy with his two or three titles but wants to win somewhere where he, not Curry, is loved/feted/granted the legacy.

For that reason, I don't see the Lakers as a realistic option. Celtics, Heat, Raptors are unlikely because a sign-and-trade won't work.

I would handicap it:

Warriors: 35%
Clippers: 26%
Knicks: 24%
Nets: 5%
Lakers: 5%
Field (Mavs being most likely among this group): 5%

For Klay:

Warriors: 75%
Lakers: 15%
Clippers: 5%
Knicks: 4%
Field: 1%

Kawhi:

Raptors: 40%
Clippers: 40%
Lakers: 15%
Field: 5%

Kemba is the star most likely to leave, in my opinion, since just about any other situation will be better than Charlotte:

Hornets: 30%
Knicks: 25%
Clippers: 20%
Nets: 10%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Butler:

Sixers: 65%
Clippers: 20%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Dr Tobias Funke Harris:

Clippers: 70%
Nets: 15%
Knicks: 10%
Field: 5%

UPDATED!

Durant:
Clippers: 30%
Knicks: 30%
Warriors: 25% 
Nets: 10%
Field (Lakers being most likely among this group): 5%

Klay:
Warriors: 80%
Lakers: 15%
Clippers: 4%
Field: 1%

Kawhi:
Clippers: 49% 
Raptors: 40%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 1%

Kemba:
Hornets: 30%
Knicks: 20%
Lakers: 20% 
Nets: 15% 
Clippers: 10%
Field: 15% (Watch Boston if Kyrie leaves)

Butler:
Sixers: 55%
Clippers: 20% 
Nets: 10%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Harris:
Sixers: 45%
Nets: 35%
Lakers: 10%
Knicks: 5%
Field: 5%

Kyrie:
Celtics: 40%
Knicks: 35%
Clippers: 24%
Field: 1%

Boogie:
Lakers: 25%
Mavs: 20%
Clippers: 20%
Knicks: 10%
Field: 25%

[thebizneverloses]

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

Ok, I misunderstood your point. In the scenario I outlined, we'd definitely be exceeding the cap, which is why you have to sequence it by signing the FAs first and then making the trade, rather than the other way around.

(Whereas, if we needed to increase our appeal to Durant/Irving before signing them and didn't think Davis was an option, we might do something like trade Knox + DSJ for Bradley Beal if we knew that would clinch Durant/Irving....if you don't think the Knicks would make that kind of win-now move, you don't know this franchise)

[kidcarter8]

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

Ok, I misunderstood your point. In the scenario I outlined, we'd definitely be exceeding the cap, which is why you have to sequence it by signing the FAs first and then making the trade, rather than the other way around.

(Whereas, if we needed to increase our appeal to Durant/Irving before signing them and didn't think Davis was an option, we might do something like trade Knox + DSJ for Bradley Beal if we knew that would clinch Durant/Irving....if you don't think the Knicks would make that kind of win-now move, you don't know this franchise)

and even if this is all true - AD would be long gone by then.

[kidcarter8]

If we are trading for him,

a)  Say goodbye to ZION/BARRETT

b)  plan on ONE major free agent joining him

c)  dont count on an immediate extension

- Just keepin it real, bro.

[Kam]

If we are trading for him,

a)  Say goodbye to ZION/BARRETT

b)  plan on ONE major free agent joining him

c)  dont count on an immediate extension

- Just keepin it real, bro.

A lot of us fans would not make this deal.  But i agree with Biz that the franchise would sacrifice it all for 2 stars.  To say nothing of a BIG 3.

[kidcarter8]

We dont have to sacrifice. Thats the point.

I love RJ Barrett.  I dont need to see him excelling with another team (with our luck in our conference) for 10 years.

[Kam]

I'm not trading the #1 or #2 pick.

#3?  Open for business.