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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Agreed. I don't get the plan.

(if there is a plan)

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

Meanwhile we hold out for "the next star that wants to leave" (how many times have you read/heard that statement since AD?) and/or 2021 Free Agency and collect more assets.

At least being slightly better won't necessarily hurt our chances at getting a top pick with the new rules. Wish the draft was this way all those years when Isiah, Walsh and PJax were in charge. We might have actually gotten a top 3 pick in a good draft.

I think our 2020 pick falls 10-17

[kiidcarter8]

ELLENSON playing Summer League with Knicks

[kiidcarter8]

D'angelo gets max.

[elephant]

Jesus. I guess last season proved an excellent time for Russell to play well.

[elephant]

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

But look. Regarding this mentoring thing that people bandy about. When was the last time the Knicks developed....anyone?

I mean anyone.

 I know other teams do it. Sometimes with amazing results. But the Knicks?

It looks like one of these hope springs eternal things.

[PrezIke]

You preferred Kanter?

Moi?

[PrezIke]

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

But look. Regarding this mentoring thing that people bandy about. When was the last time the Knicks developed....anyone?

I mean anyone.

 I know other teams do it. Sometimes with amazing results. But the Knicks?

It looks like one of these hope springs eternal things.

I'm definitely not saying I think this will happen. Just to be clear.

It's what I suspect the organization thinks.

It could happen, but I'm sure not counting on it.

[bodiddley]

Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

[thebizneverloses]

Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

[facilitatorn]

Imagination got us Starbury, STAT, Melo, and KP.

I’m good with prosaic for a spell.

[Kam]

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

[Kam]

We overpaid for the Gibsons and Ellingtons of the world.  But they have short deals, so we can construct a trade for a dissatisfied star.   That's the only plan i can see.

[thebizneverloses]

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

Shame. Because the Nets operated that way and acquired Deangelo, Kurucs, and Maza for their efforts. Had they been as myopic as the Knicks, Kyrie and KD would be playing in MSG.

[kiidcarter8]

Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

[Kam]

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

Shame. Because the Nets operated that way and acquired Deangelo, Kurucs, and Maza for their efforts. Had they been as myopic as the Knicks, Kyrie and KD would be playing in MSG.

Maybe the Knicks FO will take note of the way Brooklyn set up their team.  But that is doubtful.  $15mil for Bobby Portis is just dumb.  For a starter that's plenty but as a backup C it is just awful.  Who were we bidding against?  And  $10mil for backup PF Taj Gibson also??  Declining Taj.  Can't hit a three.   

Who was gonna pay Ellington and Bullock that much?

What a criminal use of cap space.