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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[facilitatorn]

Portis already beat out Vonleh once when they were on the same roster. Portis is producing more at an earlier stage of his career. No one was really saying that Vonleh had figured it out at all until last year. If we are looking back and saying the same kind of stuff about Portis, we might be glad to have that team option in year two.

If we don’t see a lot of him, it’s because we can’t take Mitch & Randle off the floor and Taj and or Knox look better as well. These would all be good problems to have. The progress he’s made in the last three years indicates to me that however things shake out in training camp, the young man will continue to work hard on improving his game.

[bodiddley]

I like taking a flyer on Portis.
Solidish player who can do more, if he focuses.
Has skills.

I was more thinking Vonleh instead of Taj.
Why sign 3 PF's.
Fill the vet F role with DMC, or Gay, or Wil.

Not sure what the point was of developing all those players last year if you're just going to let Kornet, Mud, Vonleh walk.  All were cheap again this year.  I suppose we don't know the locker room and who works hard, etc.  And I'm not sad to end the Mud experiment.  But Vonleh still is young and has potential.  Chop Suey really improved on rim protection.  If he can get his nice looking 3 to drop at a better rate, he could be very useful.  The guy has size and range.  And started to show long-armed D.  Found Kornet a  real easy guy to root for.

[kiidcarter8]

Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.

Portis is a black hole on offense.  With the added bonus of he doesn't defend.

You meed to stop.

[kiidcarter8]

Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?

yes

[bodiddley]

No.

I'd start Mitch.
And I'd like to start R&B Jr.
But Mitch still raw and foul prone.
RJ is 19.

I'd start them if they're ready.
But if they have to sit and learn and be 15-20 min backups to start the season, that's fine.
Since we're very likely not a playoff team, I'd like the yute (inc Knox and Jr. Smith) to mostly start, as possible.

[thebizneverloses]

For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

You have to factor in the salary level they are at now.  And the body of work.

YES to Gibson.  WE signed him straight away, with the others - so it was thought out, pondered plenty in advance.  I am sure advanced metrics are good on our bigs acquisitions

538's analytics say Portis is one of the worst signings of the summer based on his atrocious D.

Let's not get fooled when he scores a few points and grabs a rebounds. Is he playing D? Is he passing the ball? Listen to Kam on this one.

[thebizneverloses]

Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?

That's the kind of team we've got.

RJ is a lock to start. I'll be surprised if a healthy DSJ doesn't start on Opening Night.

[thebizneverloses]

Another concern is with all the vet additions, that our yute doesn't get the court time they should.  Easy to see Knox getting lost in the shuffle.  Dotson as well.  Does Frank still have a locker?   

Not sure why we overloaded: 
Randle/Portis + Taj
Bullocks & Ellington
I would have liked to have brought back Vonleh and Kornet.
And added a vet SF like DMC.

Good points all. We differ in that I prefer Taj to Portis - Taj offers more veteran know-how, defending, and passing. A good role model. Can play next to either Mitch or Randle. Portis and Randle can't really share the floor together, and certainly not with Knox. In fact, I don't get what Portis' supposed fit is, he overlaps with a lot of what we have.

Subtract Portis and Payton and Ellington, keep Vonleh, do the Harkless trade, and with the $18 million you have left see if Charlotte gives a lottery protected first to dump Biyombo. Or if OKC gives a lotto-protected first to dump Roberson + Patterson. Had we done that, this summer would have been an A- minus summer. Not that different than what we did, except this time we're not burying the youth in which we invested so much time, and the roster has more balance. Plus those picks would be nice.

[Kam]

I think he makes the most sense in Houston.  They need to add a guy.

[Kam]

Portis and Randle can't really share the floor together, and certainly not with Knox. In fact, I don't get what Portis' supposed fit is, he overlaps with a lot of what we have.

They will play together a lot.  When you make that kind of fiscal commitment to Portis, it's because you want him to start.  We have no other C but Mitch.  If we wanted to gift Mitch the starting nod we would've gone after a 4-5 million signee  for backup Center.  15.5 makes Portis the presumptive starter.

Mitch will have to beat out Portis and DSJ will have to beat out Payton.  That's how it is.  Portis and Payton have a ton of career starts.  They came here to play and play a lot.

Portis makes no sense as a backup on a shit team.  At that point you try to move him. It's really the Enes Kanter situation from last season all over again.  I'm impatient and want Mitch to start.   Perry/Mills are acting like they have all the time in the world; throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

Desperation reeks.

[thebizneverloses]

Timberwolves
J. Randle  PF  $20.0M  3 year(s)

B. Portis  PF   $15.1M  2 year(s)

W. Ellington SG  $7.8M  2 year(s)

E. Payton PG $7.8M 2 year(s)

K. Knox  PF  $4.3M 4 year(s)

M. Robinson C $1.5M 3 year(s)

D. Dotson  SG $1.6M 2 year(s)

Round 1 2020 - own pick

Round 1 2021 - via Dallas

Round 1 2022 - own pick



Knicks
A. Wiggins SF $27.5M 4 year(s)

K. Towns C $27.2M 5 year(s)

G. Dieng C $16.2M 2 year(s)

J. Bell C $1.6M
2 year(s)

S. Napier PG $1.8M
1 year(s)

Round 2 2020 - own pick


Obviously try to keep the 2020 pick out of it. Or keep Dieng and Portis out of it. But they're not doing the deal without Mitch or the Dallas pick. Anyhow, this would leave us with DSJ/RJ/Wiggins/Taj/KAT to start, with Frank/IsoZo/Bullock/Bell being key players off the bench. Just a starting PF away from having a young playoff team and an RJ/KAT foundation.

[bodiddley]

I'm not sure what the Portis fit is.
I'm not sure when he became seen as a C either.
You start Randle and Portis and there's no rim protection.
Mitch makes sense next to Randle.  And Randle is the starting PF. 

If you start Jr. Smith and Barrett (my preference), then you have 3 yute in the starting lineup and a vet, either Portis or Bullocks, makes the most sense at SF.  Probably Bull, because he at least puts in defensive effort.  Or Portis if he earns it.

It's not that much we gave Portis and it's a short deal.
I think he's just an interesting player who hasn't reached his potential and the Knix want to see if Fizz can unlock that, or why he hasn't progressed.  We took a flyer on him.

I see him as a tweener -- between starter and bench.  Portis needs to show he's a legit starter.  Also, I can see him playing SF, since the competition is just Knox and Bullocks.  And backing up PF (and possibly C).  Portis can get 20 -25 mins per night if he deserves it.  Bullock really should be a backup and spot starter.

But since we don't want Knox to get lost, maybe Portis does backup F/C.

[PrezIke]

Grade the moves of the FO

A   

RJ Barrett   -  Knicks made the obvious move.  And they didn't mess it up.   That gets them an A.


B+   

Julius Randle -  You can like the player and the contract, but it's hard to give them an A when Randle was Plan B or C


B

Ignas Bradzeikis - Looks like the Knicks invested to move up in the 2nd round on a guy who can stick in the league.  That's great for picking that late.

C+

Bobby Portis  - Earned his deal on the strength of inflated numbers playing on bad teams.  He can only play Center.  No twin towers lineups with Mitch.  Obviously Knicks gonna fuck up Mitch's development.   Why did we need another young C?  Offense/defense platoon the plan for Mitch and Bobby?  How long before Bobby punches Mitch in de face?  Only reason I give it a C+ and not a worse grade is on the murky "potential" of Portis as a player and trade chit.

C

Kris Wilkes and the rest of their summer league signings.  Only because i'm being generous.

F

Everyone else was a waste,  rather have Patrick Beverly than Elfrid Payton, and prefer Robin Lopez to Taj Gibson, and i don't know wtf we were doing announcing signing NBA journeymen like Wayne Ellington, and Reggie Bullock to easy money deals.  There were so many shitty deals to one dimensional players did i miss anybody?


And because the KP trade made this spending $pree possible, and since a lack of talent scared off Kyrie (who has KD on a leash) the overall grade for the Knicks Front Office is:  Z-


 

AKA a C-

[PrezIke]

For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

Gibson's deal is bananas, but Vonleh fell off as the season wore on.

We also need some vocal leadership, particularly on defense. A steep price to pay for it though.

[PrezIke]

The geniuses in charge plan is to trade for CP3 with the ending deals.

Wouldn't be such a bad thing except for the 44mil due in 2021 

That is where my support falls short of making the deal.  No sale.

Why on earth would we trade for him?? I know we're desperate, but that desperate?