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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[bodiddley]

Sorry.  that's not my West order.

I just kept the 6 teams someone said were  a lock for the playoffs and added SAS and POR, without reordering.

It's too early to have a good idea which teams are what.
But I'm guessing LeBJ and AD miss some games and the team doesn't cohere quickly, and they're more of a 4 or 5 seed, than Top 3.

Maybe my early, early prediction:
1. DEN
2. LAC
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. LAL
6. POR
7. GSW
8. SAS

Minn
Dal
Okc
Sac

Nope
Memf
Phoeknix
Nope

I likely have UTA too high, but I'm buying in.  Their D should be fine and UTA has a good Home ad.  Jeff Green/Ed Davis is a vet PF tandem that could run into health or quality issues.  But Conley stabilizes; and Bog can shoot.  freeing up Don Mitch to do his thing.

[thebizneverloses]

You are picking them there?

No, I'm picking them to finish 14th. But I think it's possible Minny collapses or Dallas has injuries and Phoenix scratches and claws their way all the way up to 12th in the conference. I guess I'm saying they're a "darkhorse" for 12th place. Not within 10 games of the playoffs, that's for damn sure.

Also, Dallas ain't going to the playoffs either. Love their coach and their top two dogs, but they have neither depth nor continuity.

[thebizneverloses]

Sorry.  that's not my West order.

I just kept the 6 teams someone said were  a lock for the playoffs and added SAS and POR, without reordering.

It's too early to have a good idea which teams are what.
But I'm guessing LeBJ and AD miss some games and the team doesn't cohere quickly, and they're more of a 4 or 5 seed, than Top 3.

Maybe my early, early prediction:
1. DEN
2. LAC
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. LAL
6. POR
7. GSW
8. SAS

Minn
Dal
Okc
Sac

Nope
Memf
Phoeknix
Nope

I likely have UTA too high, but I'm buying in.  Their D should be fine and UTA has a good Home ad.  Jeff Green/Ed Davis is a vet PF tandem that could run into health or quality issues.  But Conley stabilizes; and Bog can shoot.  freeing up Don Mitch to do his thing.

Shove Houston to 2nd, Sacto to 9th, and flip Spurs and GSW and I'm with you BoD.

[kiidcarter8]

Lakers bring much of the band back

I won't follow them, root for them after Ball departure -

but I have them #1 in West at this point.

[chipstern]

The Knicks prized rookie struggled but their second round draft pick looked like the best player on either team in their loss to the Suns and I couldn't help but feel deja vu. This game included the early double-digit lead, third quarter crash and a furious fourth quarter comeback that fell short in overtime. It was quintessential Knicks basketball right down to a raw developmental lottery pick struggling and the lesser known draft pick shining. The sophomores looked the part of superior players on the floor but they all took a back seat to Ignas Brazdeikis in this one. Lastly, we got some signs of life from the bench pieces who are fighting for one last roster spot with the pro team or a Westchester contract to develop. So while it was discouraging to witness another loss, there were some good signs to takeaway from the game. Let's take a closer look:

RJ: Step off of the ledge, it's the second game of summer league. Let's not mince words RJ Barrett's shooting has been a bit of a train wreck and he turned the ball over a ton. But Summer League is about looking for the tools he can build on and utilize in the future. Barrett put up 8 points, 10 boards and 1 assist to 8 turnovers in his 32 minutes out there. RJ shot 3/15 from the field and 1/5 from three, not to mention going 1/4 from the free throw line. His shot is all out of sorts right now but his second field goal of the game came at the top of the key and flashed form that he should be able to build up from. He also didn't pick up the TO's just because of greedy play. Barrett flashed really nice court vision in spotting open players both in traffic and during fast breaks but his execution on the passes was just slightly off. This meant three or four turnovers that occurred when RJ had the idea but threw the pass off target. That's okay, between rust and the new environment, it's more important that the Maple Mamba is seeing those opportunities. I'd add though, that as the game wound down, the rookie started to press more for offense. That competitive streak may be a negative now, but if Barrett becomes the player we think he can be, then it will also lead to this kid being willing to step up in clutch situations.

Barrett also showed off his rebounding prowess. He came away with 10 boards and flashed the ability to grab a board then lead a fast break. That's a really promising way to get yourself going. Unfortunately, defensive rebounding and one stop at the end of regulation were about the only good signs for the kid defensively. Where I'm hopeful for his offensive growth, I'm a bit frustrated seeing him make fairly simple mistakes on the other end. RJ lets his feet get tangled at times and he struggles to get around screens. This means he's giving up a step to his man WAY too often. The good news is that Knox struggled mightily with his defense last year and has shown plenty of improvement already in summer league this year; but it took Knox an offseason to get there. We may be really frustrated watching Barrett defend this season if fundamentals like footwork are still on the agenda for his training (take a dance class on the side RJ, I promise it helps). That last stop in regulation is the bright spot though. Barrett locked in, got low and took contact without budging. His strength, size and competitive nature should translate to solid defense in time but there's a lot of work to be done.

Iggy: The star of the game was Ignas Brazdeikis with 30 points, 8 boards and 2 assists although he did have 5 TO's himself (one came after he dove for a loose ball without a timeout to call though). Iggy's efficiency scoring made it easy to forgive the TO's. He shot a red hot 11/19 from the field and 3/6 from three point land including a game tying three with less than 30 seconds on the clock. Brazdeikis just plays with an edge. The kid knows how to find open space on the floor, that was clear from game one but with the jumper falling everything else gets unlocked. Iggy hitting the J meant defenders had to stay tight on him and in those instances he would take his man to rim. Against bigger defenders, this led to blow by's. When smaller guys stayed in front of Iggy; he'd hit them with a spin or pivot step move and score over them. So the Knicks let him handle through pick and rolls a LOT and the results were great. Whether he's dribbling or going into his dribble, Iggy has patience and knows how to use ball fakes to misdirect his man before attacking the screen. It was the kind of performance where you start to revisit the depth chart and rotations in case this level of play is sustainable.

It's worth mentioning though that Iggy's defense was a mixed bag to me. He's a good defender that sticks to his man and puts in the effort but has athletic limitations on that end. Just as his tweener status gave him advantages scoring, you could see the reverse on the other end. Faster guys were able to get a step on him and bigger guys were able to score even with Ignas attached to their hip and trying to deny. He also was ineffective if he had to switch the screen man who was typically too big to keep off of the boards even on a miss. So it's not a perfect night, but there was a ton of potential on display from another potential second round gem.

Mitch: The Knicks first option on every play should just be to lob the ball at the rim...that's what it started to feel like watching Mitchell Robinson grab boards and slam anything the got into the air around the basket. Robinson put up 17 points, 9 boards and 2 blocks in his 30 minutes of play while going 7/8 from the field. He also shot a perfect 3/3 from the line which continues his improvement there which started in the second half of last season. Mitch is a menace, simple as that. When players get into the lane and Mitch is waiting, they virtually always have to dish the ball off or attempt a ball fake because Mitch is going to throw anything that gets near him. That said, this had some negative consequences attached. Mitch picked up 6 fouls including some unnecessary ones due to being overzealous. He also had 4 goal tends before I stopped counting and a couple of them weren't even close. So Mitch blocked a pair but also gave back points on goal tends. But the frantic motor sets a great tone defensively that ought to be more impactful with a rotation that plays better defense against the pick and roll.

Knox: Kevin Knox looks like an improved player but that kinda makes me disappointed in the end result on the box score. Knox posted 12 points, 4 boards and 1 assist to 3 TO's in his team leading 33 minutes of play. He went 4/10 from the field but an impressive 3/5 from three was the boost needed. The "still a teenager" continues to look like his jumper is ready for primetime although it wasn't as effective in the midrange. Behind the line though, all he has needed was a bit of space to deliver results and that floor stretching is going to be helpful. We never got the forays into the paint that Knox flashed last year and really showed improvement on last game though. He looks the part, a player ready to deliver on some of his potential but this was a game where he floated some. Kadeem Allen scored more on the same amount of attempts; Tyler Cavanaugh matched his scoring with less attempts in less time. This is all a bit harsh, but he's capable of having a MUCH larger impact, in fact he had a bigger impact last year in this same situation but with less developed skills. This might just be purposefully looking to let RJ and Iggy take the lead, but I'm a bit disappointed that there hasn't been at least a run of aggressive, "I'm taking over" ball from Knox.

I need one more bit simply to praise his growth on defense. He's still a work in progress but his best moment of the night came when ESPN played his mic'd up reel. Here we could see Knox vocal and locked in on defense in a manner that just didn't seem to be there last year. He still has a lot to work on and build up, but the growth through these first two games is extremely promising.

Allen: This is a lot more like the Kadeem Allen I expect to see in summer league. Yes, he shot 3/10 which is bad but he also got to the line 6 times pumping his numbers to 13 points, 6 assists, 3 boards and 3 steals in 26 minutes of play. Take one iso-scorer off the court and replace them with a motion player like Iggy and suddenly Allen looks like the table setter we saw late last season. The young vet came in and found people, picked out the right players to attack and ensured that every starter got ample opportunity to score. On the down side, his 1/4 from three is especially bad because the looks were open in a close game but that's about my only complaint on offense. I truly believe that if he gets 5 more minutes, the Knicks win that game and some of the turnover numbers elsewhere come down. That's the impact of a real general being out there even if he's not the most offensively gifted or the focal point of the ball. Everything just flows better.

We also got the disruptive aspects of Allen's game back. The three steals aren't the only plays that Allen managed to muck up for Suns guards right at the top of the key. He was creating havoc through pressure. That said, Harper did get the step on him a bit more than I'd have liked but this was a huge step up from game one. Allen's getting back to the right defensive mindset and I feel bad for his next assignment.

Cavanaugh: Tyler Cavanaugh looked like a third year player in summer league who has seen and faced better. His physical attributes don't leap off the screen but he's been really productive in his minutes. In game one he flashed a mid range jumper and grabbed 3 boards in less than 5 minutes. Last night he pumped in 12 points, 4 boards and 2 assists in 19 minutes on 3/4 shooting and 1/1 from three. His only negative was 5/8 from the free throw line but 8 free throw attempts in 19 minutes is impossible to get very upset about. He plays smart, effective basketball and earned some props. I think he has place on an extended NBA roster, although ours is loaded with depth already so we're not a good fit. But he seems like he deserves a camp invite early on.

Wooten: It was with 3 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks that the legend of Kenny Wooten met its humble beginning. That's because one of those blocks was reminiscent of the good old days when a rookie Mitchell Robinson was volley ball spike something and we'd marvel at his hops. Wooten looked like the PF version of Mitch whenever he had an excuse to jump. He sports a long build with freakish athleticism and the same exact mad man motor that endeared Mitch to Knick fans before preseason even started. So in 12 minutes with a fairly pedestrian stat line Kenny Wooten raised my eyebrow. He won't be Mitch, might be a g-league project, but you can't teach that athletic package and few players come into the league with anything close to that motor. I'd keep an eye on him.

Hinton: Amir Hinton also flashed some good signs. He only played 8 minutes but managed 2/3 from the field for 5 points and 2 boards in that brief run plus a trip to the line for 1/2 FT's. It's nothing crazy, but he looked comfortable on the ball and seemed like a plus athlete. He barely got his feet wet but I'd like to see a bit more just to get an idea of where he's at among the developmental options for Westchester.

Peters, White, Smith: These guys didn't do enough with the limited time they were given to say much.

Floor Balance and Flow: Last time I got into the importance of patience with the kids and this time I want to highlight how much a good floor balance can be transformative for a team. Allonzo Trier was arguably the best Knick on the court game one and sat out game two but the ball moved a lot more freely. This meant a lot more passing to cutters and easy baskets but also a lot more TO's. Two players benefited especially from this shift toward more free flowing action; Ignas Brazdeikis got far more opportunity to create with the ball in hand and Allen got more opportunities to be a playmaker. Both of those guys looked great last night. But the added pressure to create also showed up in the TO counts for Iggy, RJ and Knox who are unironically two
rookies and the second youngest sophomore in the league. So this is not in any way an indictment of Trier. It's about the give and take of different rotation make ups. With an additional iso-scoring option on the floor, the ball movement flattens out and less off ball motion occurs. That means lower TO totals but weaker spacing. Take that player off the court and the spacing improves. The ball will move a lot more nicely. But suddenly you don't have that pressure valve that keeps players from having to do more than they're comfortable with.

So why am I pointing out this dynamic? Because NBA rotations can look like a jigsaw puzzle, especially to us Knicks fans who have watched entire seasons where coaches couldn't figure out a good and balanced rotation. Fiz is loaded with players who have similar levels of talent but wildly varying skill sets and play types. He has the iso-scorers, the floor spacers, the pass first guys and the hard work players. Finding a way to balance playing time that both keeps these guys happy and fits together in a way that limits TO's but encourages free flowing ball movement is going to be a serious test for him. He has to do that while considering player development and growth as well. Then there's the wild card which is player ego's and personalities. This thing is wildly complicated but can be a lot of fun to evaluate and try to figure out. Focus on the fun and the experimenting at least early on, because finding that perfect balance is fleeting in a league where everyone scouts each other and makes adjustments. More importantly, we'll need to be mindful of these dynamics but also patient with Fiz for all of the reasons I've mentioned here.

Missed y'all, Brother Pharoah. 

Thrilled to be able to read you anew.

Most balanced, fair-minded informed analysis, post after post after post. 

I always learn something.   

[bodiddley]

Learn the quote function, newbie ...

[chipstern]

Learn the quote function, newbie ...

I knew for a Biblical Certainty THAT WOULD RING YOUR BELL. 

[facilitatorn]

Welcome back Chip for what we hope will be the beginning of Fizdale’s virtuoso year.

[kiidcarter8]

Sooooo disturbing

https://twitter.com/mellentuck/status/1148269841448656896

[facilitatorn]

Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe take it up with your therapist.

[Kam]

Doc now gets his chance to prove he can win without a great haul of other team's talent.

Oh, wait......

Doc did that last year. 

[facilitatorn]

I’d take a flyer on Tre Lyles. He’s a skilled big who fits our timeline. The Grant to Denver trade cut him free.

[bodiddley]

Trey has looked NBA marginal to me, but I'd be up for a reclamation  if we didn't just sign 3 PF's already.

I'd be interested in Juancho.

I like the Jer Grant pickup for DEN.
Nice active player, great backup for Milsap, allowing their vet to rest more.  [auto-correct wanted to change Milsap to Mishap -- good nickname there]
Grant a better player than Wil.

[Kam]

Y'all rating Denver too high.   The West got better.   They won't take anyone by surprise.   They're young.

They will have a hard time repeating wins vs the LA teams this year.

Houston is still Houston.   They may start slow again, but they figure it out.  Winning is in their DNA.  Top 3 team.

LeBron is switching to a new position (PG) and has AD and Boogie and Kuzma and Danny Green to feed.  Top 3 team.

Golden State and the Clippers will vie for the other Top 3 team status.  Golden State still has talent.  Know how to win. Won't fall to 7/8.

[bodiddley]

I don't think GS will overly worry about W's early on.  Take some losses instead of wearing Scurry down too much.  Try to stay healthy, and hope Klay comes back and is good for the playoffs.
They have to work in Tangelo and WCS and others.
Things could be a bit rocky.