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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 915200 times)

chipstern

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2014 NBA Draft
« Reply #7230 on: July 29, 2019, 12:03:54 PM »

#7: Julius Randle

#10: Elfrid Payton

#16: Jusuf Nurkic

#25: Clint Capela

#34: Cleanthony Early

#38: Spencer Dinwiddie

#41: Nikola Jokic

#46: Jordan Clarkson

#51: Thanasis Antetokounmpo
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Kam

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Re: 2014 NBA Draft
« Reply #7231 on: July 29, 2019, 12:09:27 PM »

#7: Julius Randle

#10: Elfrid Payton


#9: Noah Vonleh.



We kept ZERO of the free agents we were "developing" last season.  Glad Frank had to sit through Mudiay and Burke.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7232 on: July 29, 2019, 12:10:16 PM »

Yeah, me too.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7233 on: July 29, 2019, 12:20:49 PM »

Everybody's development (yes the whole team suffered)  was arrested by trying to "Get Mudiay Right"

Yay, we earned him a minimum contract with Utah,  who are known to develop players.


So that Mudiay could drive move and finish better (again, YAY!) we sat a pass first Ntilikina who probably could've averaged 8 or 9 assists per game. 

Now Frank  (who we did not even allow to go to Westchester for in game reps) is a shell of what he was his rookie campaign.


Again, YAY!
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7234 on: July 29, 2019, 12:29:18 PM »

Everybody's development (yes the whole team suffered)  was arrested by trying to "Get Mudiay Right"



Wrong

He was simply one of 15 players out there trying to win games.

Fizdale assumed Mudiay might be a program guy - not a one year plugin.

Fiz likely with the - "Now what do I do?" reaction when DSJ was added, true.  Coaching can be tough at times in this respect
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 12:31:15 PM by kiidcarter8 »
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7235 on: July 29, 2019, 12:54:57 PM »

We would've won more with Frank
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7236 on: July 29, 2019, 01:03:14 PM »

We will win more with Frank.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7237 on: July 29, 2019, 01:39:32 PM »

Randle's a better player than Lucas was.

Not true.

Lucas played in 4 straight All-Star games (one of them was ABA).
And made another A-S game a few years later.
Let's see Randle become a 5-time all-star.

Their career numbers are very similar.
But for Luke that includes his last 3 post-PHX years, from age 33-35 when he was in decline.

Mo Luke played D.
1st team All-D one year and the next year All-D 2nd.
Randle known as chumpy on D.
That's the key difference between them.
Plus Lucas was a leader and motivator.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7238 on: July 29, 2019, 01:58:33 PM »

I'm glad you handled that one, Bo.  At this point, Randle, who I actually like, has been nothing more than a decent player on a series of lousy teams.  I'm not sure what possible basis one would have to conclude that "Randle's better than Lucas was."

On the other hand, Kid knows things. 
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7239 on: July 29, 2019, 02:00:42 PM »

Its early sledding on Randle. He’s going to get some team USA defensive work in before camp. He’ll have Taj and Morris to share wisdom and set standards for his play with us. Even at 24, I don’t see him as a finished product, but as a guy still adding layers to his game. With Randle and the rest of the free agents I’m reserving judgement till I see how they look with us and how they look together.
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chipstern

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Mo
« Reply #7240 on: July 29, 2019, 03:23:15 PM »

Saying Randle IS a better player than Lucas is reasonably flippant. 

Maurice Lucas was a force of nature.  He did things that didn't show up in a box score. 

Like what Oakley and Mason did on D...just conveying a certain sense of attitude as to no wire hangers, no layups, no uncontested hoops. 

Lucas was a LEADER and an ENFORCER, and everyone knew Maurice had their back. 

Bo, I think it is way early to be dismissing Randle on any level, and the good stats lousy team diss is a bit much.  He has gotten better every year.  Check out some of his highlight reels on YouTube.  He is an excellent passer, very graceful going to the basket strong or with finesse, and his outside shot is for real.  He is a rock solid 6'9" 250, and will get you 20-8-3 night in and night out.  In The NBA.  That ain't chopped liver. 

As for his defense, well, that remains to be seen.  And how the Knicks "Culture" evolves along those lines.  With Taj at PF and Morris at SF, we are certainly raising the bar in that regard. 

As for Burke and Mudiay superseding Frank, while some arguments could be made along those lines, and surely more consistent floor time would've been to Frank's benefit, his offense was up and down, and it seems like every time he got into some sort of rhythm, he could not sustain it, OR GOT HURT. 

As for Fizz, Berman's article on the Knicks KULTURE, seemed like something of a message pitch...you could hear Mills and Perry talking, but not see their lips moving. 

Of course, it was not Fizz's decision to cut Kornet, Mudiay, Vonleh, Herzonja loose.  I don't necessarily see that as an indictment of either the coaching or the culture, more like, BACK TO THE FUCKING DRAWING BOARD. 

PF/C: Portis > Kornet
PG: Payton > Mudiay
PF: Randle > Vonleh
SF/PF: Brazdeikis > Herzonja

Seems to me, much as I liked our alumni Luke, Emmanuel. Noah and Mario, that Bobby, Elfrid, Julius and Ignas are significant upgrades.  Still, I think our ex-Knicks should do well on their new teams, and that Fizz did improve their games. 

We shall see. 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 03:25:43 PM by chipstern »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7241 on: July 29, 2019, 04:19:07 PM »

At 24, Mo Luke was the 2nd best player on a championship team ...


Quote
He is an excellent passer, very graceful going to the basket strong or with finesse, and his outside shot is for real.

I think that's overselling.
Randle's a decent passer.
Bulls through people and sometimes charges.
Sometimes flips up some real ugly shots at the rim, because he has no plan B.  And he has exactly one season of almost league average 3-point shooting (on not many attempts for these days).

He's a bull, has reasonable offensive skills and can board.
Can improve on some of his drives.  Needs to be able to pass or take good shots and not just steamroll every time.
Needs to be more aware defensively.
His nascent 3-point shooting is intriguing.
If he can improve on defense and hit some 3's, he's real intriguing.

He's young and can remedy those things, to an extent, if willing.  One thing that turns me off: the games/times where he wildly flips the ball at the rim.  Gives me Antoine Walker flashbacks.

He is good on the break, if the Knix push the pace.
Maybe he'll pair well with Mitch, but those two might be awfully foul-prone.  of course we have lots of PF's to slot in if that happens.

PF/C: Portis > Kornet
PG: Payton > Mudiay
PF: Randle > Vonleh
SF/PF: Brazdeikis > Herzonja

Seems to me, much as I liked our alumni Luke, Emmanuel. Noah and Mario, that Bobby, Elfrid, Julius and Ignas are significant upgrades. 

Sure but that's comparing $40M in annual salary v. $8M (or whatever the actual $$'s are).  I'm glad we dumped Mud, but not an Elfin fan either.
I would have liked Vonleh and Kornet back.  Continuity and investing in players is a good thing.

I still think it was goofy of the Knix to sign 4 PF's this Summer.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7242 on: July 29, 2019, 04:26:12 PM »

I like the idea of starting Randle and Morris at the 3&4 with Taj on the bench next to Knox staying in his ear. With Mitch, Randle, and Morris starting you need at least decent shooting from the guards. Portis, Taj, and Knox brings good spacing from the second unit while leaning on Taj to earn his money organizing decent team defense from the other two. As starters that would be a disaster. Against second units, it just might work.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7243 on: July 29, 2019, 05:43:23 PM »

I'm glad you handled that one, Bo.  At this point, Randle, who I actually like, has been nothing more than a decent player on a series of lousy teams. 

Heh
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #7244 on: July 29, 2019, 05:51:31 PM »

Can always count on YG to play both sides
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