Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Question: Which team will win the Eastern Conference?
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jbottle
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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2007, 10:20:19 PM »

As far as "flop," Nash knew that his head was getting ready to hit the edge of the scorer's table, so in trying to put his arm in the way of his head, I can't really blame the guy for exaggerating once he hit the floor, a little, but for Horry to say he meant to take a charge, well, that's just bullshit.  I would've said the same thing, but still, it was an uncalled for shot and he should've gotten punched in the face for it, that's why guys came off the bench, because you put down the "all-star" who pads our stats with unbelievable passing, you are going to get popped, period.

Whatever the NBA is to make of it is immaterial, you don't stand on top of an imaginary line when a 6-6 240 guy hammers your 6-2 190 guy, that would make you a pussy, and I'd rather play golf in Phoenix a man than be a pussy who stands over an imaginary line with Bobby Cheap Shot staring at my boy on the floor.  There is no way that the alternative is imaginable at all--so if it's bad for the NBA so be it, but fuck all that and whatever happened after that...
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Dzimas
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2007, 12:31:09 AM »

The protective urge is pretty strong, especially when your teammate goes down like that.  It is just too bad that a guy like Horry who has had such a great career will be remembered from here on out as Cheap Shot Bob, and that the Spurs, hitherto known for their professionalism, will be remembered for the foul way in which they played the Suns.  Makes me think of Woody Hayes and the forearm he delivered to a Clemson player when the Buckeyes fate was sealed.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2007, 03:55:13 PM »

Sam Mitchell reportedly re-upped with Raps.

JVG out.
Adelman reportedly in.

I like JVG and certainly the Rockets had a lot of injuries both last year and this year.
Utah had a better starting 5 and a better team.
JVG usually doesn't like young players, but he did develop Head and Chuck Hayes (though Spanoulis and Novak barely played).
Maybe Battier could have been used more in the offense, and I miss the early days of Yao when he would pass.  But Yao improved every year under VanG, especially this year where he stopped trying to take charges and would face and shoot more often.
Rockets D was solid every year, and it's not exactly JVG's fault if Rafer is their starting point.

With that said, Adelman should be a good choice.
Solid coach who will open up the offense more.  Something liek Flip going to Detroit.
Hopefully with better offensive sets, TMac will improve his shot selection.
Still the Rockets need to add a starter at the PG (and PF).

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bodiddley
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2007, 04:20:03 PM »

Chad Ford calling Yi JianLian the 3rd best prospect in the upcoming draft.
Would appreciate the full article if anyone is an Insider.

Yi has talent, but I'm expecting a rough transition for him.
He doesn't have Yao's poise or personality.
Disappears for long stretches and gets discouraged.
Weak upper body and gets pushed around by NBDL-level Americans in the Chinese league.  He's a 7 footer in the Tim Thomas mold.
That is a tall mobile SF, aka a tweener prospect.

He would do best on an open court team like the Suns.
He has a good turnaround J from 12 feet and face up range out to 16 or so.
But I doubt he'll get the space to use it like he can in China.
I'm not exactly calling him a bust, but I think he'll be a player who will be better on his second contract.  Especially if he can bulk up and man the PF position 4 or 5 years down the road.  I don't think he'll see much court time his first year.
Maybe he'll surprise me, but Wang ZhiZhi was a better player (or at least Yi's equal) in the CBA last season.

There are questions about Yi's age, as the Chinese used to routinely falsify ages for the youth tournaments.  So he's listed as 20 (if I recall) but thought to be 22.  That could affect his development curve, and any NBA serious about drafting him should try to get accurate records from China.
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Kam
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2007, 05:00:36 PM »

Where will Yi land?
posted: Friday, May 18, 2007  |  Feedback  |  Print Entry
filed under: Insider NBA

Yi Jianlian could be the draft's biggest wild card. Projecting how high he'll go will be no easy task.

I spent two days watching Yi work out in Los Angeles and walked away convinced that he's the third-best prospect (see the Top 100), ranking immediately behind Greg Oden and Kevin Durant.

But that doesn't mean he'll go No. 3. In fact, at this point it's not clear at all where he'll land in the lottery, from No. 3 to some spot further down.

For Yi to maximize his potential, he needs to be drafted by a team that's committed to developing him the same way Houston was with Yao Ming.

That's where Yi's agent, Dan Fegan, comes in.

Fegan, who has a long client list in the NBA, including Suns forward Shawn Marion and Warriors guard Jason Richardson, has a rep as a tough negotiator who finds a way to get his clients on the teams they want to play for at top dollar.

His challenge for Yi will be interesting.

Fegan declines to talk about their draft strategy, but several NBA GMs say that he's been coy about individual workouts. He may let some teams come to see Yi in L.A., but he's being careful about who those teams are.

It's for good reason. Fegan has seen how a top international prospect can rise or fall depending on which team drafts him.

Darko Milicic came into the league with much more buzz than Yi, but landed on a loaded, veteran team with a head coach in Larry Brown who was much more interested in breaking him and changing his game than giving him playing time.

Andrea Bargnani of Italy was the first European to be drafted No. 1, and he landed in a very nuturing, Euro-friendly environment in Toronto.

At one point, when Bargnani fell out of the rotation during his rookie year, Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo let it be known publicly and privately that Sam Mitchell was to give him at least 20 minutes a night. Bargnani got the minutes and ended up finishing second in the Rookie of the Year race.

So draft position isn't the real issue for Yi. It's fit.

Of the teams in the lottery, Phoenix makes the most sense from a number of different angles. In Mike D'Antoni, the Suns have a coach who appreciates international players and practices a style of play perfectly suited to Yi's strengths, which are speed and shooting.

The Celtics are another team that could give Yi a long look if they don't win one of the two top positions in the draft. Al Jefferson proved that he could play center in the pros last season. He and Yi would make a formidable pair in the frontcourt.

The Bulls are another team that makes sense. Chicago is a perimeter-oriented team that needs a 4 who can both score in the post and stretch defenses.

A number of teams, including the Warriors and Lakers, have their eyes on Yi. To get him, they'll have to find a way to trade up in the draft -- but given his potential, you can't count them out.



Chad Ford calling Yi JianLian the 3rd best prospect in the upcoming draft.
Would appreciate the full article if anyone is an Insider.

Yi has talent, but I'm expecting a rough transition for him.
He doesn't have Yao's poise or personality.
Disappears for long stretches and gets discouraged.
Weak upper body and gets pushed around by NBDL-level Americans in the Chinese league.  He's a 7 footer in the Tim Thomas mold.
That is a tall mobile SF, aka a tweener prospect.

He would do best on an open court team like the Suns.
He has a good turnaround J from 12 feet and face up range out to 16 or so.
But I doubt he'll get the space to use it like he can in China.
I'm not exactly calling him a bust, but I think he'll be a player who will be better on his second contract.  Especially if he can bulk up and man the PF position 4 or 5 years down the road.  I don't think he'll see much court time his first year.
Maybe he'll surprise me, but Wang ZhiZhi was a better player (or at least Yi's equal) in the CBA last season.

There are questions about Yi's age, as the Chinese used to routinely falsify ages for the youth tournaments.  So he's listed as 20 (if I recall) but thought to be 22.  That could affect his development curve, and any NBA serious about drafting him should try to get accurate records from China.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2007, 11:06:14 PM »

Thanks for that, Kam.
So Ford agrees that Yi would fit nicely on the Suns.
And I agree that finding him a good fit is more important (but a bit difficult) rather than going as high as possible.  Yet Ford seems to think Yi is ready to step in as a PF.  I don't.
Think he's an SF for the next 3+ years. 

He has a body like a young Lamar Odom, but not as many moves or as good a handle, yet a better shooter.  Odom had a lot of promise but took years to reach it.  And Yi has the language/culture barrier to overcome.  It'd be interesting if he could land on Houston.
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jbottle
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2007, 02:15:28 AM »

Yeah, I don't think Robert Horry will be remembered for a "hard foul" on Nash in game five of the semis, but yeah, I suppose he could be saddled with it under today's media scrutiny.  That was all playoff ball on Horry's part even, if just to say, in the appropriate (though slightly dangerous) manner of check yourself this is the playoffs...I'm ambivalent about anything but I think that maybe there should be suspensions when "appropriate," end of language...because some LAWYER like David Stern is going to take over and make it NO FUN for ANYBODY, etc., but what I do know is this:

a)  Nash is the best player on the Suns.

b)  Suns players don't have to "look to score" for the trade because all they have to do is play along and "get open."

c)  You have to move to a spot so that Nash can hit you for that jumper otherwise he is a small white guy driving for no reason...

d)  David Stern, if somebody smashed Jordan or any other shoe seller since into the wall, it would've been so fucking wrong, you money whore.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2007, 03:01:57 AM »

The Suns have set once again.  I can't figure them out.  So much talent, but they can't seem to get over the hump.  Remind me of the Barkley-led Suns from before.  Some franchises simply will never win an NBA title.  As for the Spurs, they can gloat once again.  I would love to see Utah knock them off their pedestal, but I imagine they will find a way to get past them.  Should be a good series between Detroit and San Antonio, birds of a feather.
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jbottle
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2007, 03:57:32 AM »

The impressive pass is still only an "assist," especially when you don't score in double figures, but still, the Suns were jerked around by language, but who in the penal system can't say same.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2007, 05:04:57 AM »

I think a team would have to be nuts not to go with Oden as the first pick.  The guy has everything.  Yao Ming has had his moments, but like Gasol, hasn't measured up to expectations. Yi Jianlian is pretty much an unknown quantity. Unfortunatley, the "little guys" in Europe don't stand much of a chance in the NBA, as GS squandered the many talents of Jasikevicius.  Too bad the NBA lured him away from Maccabi Tel Aviv, where he led the team to two Euroleague titles.  I don't imagine he will stick around much longer, seeing as he is spending most of his time on the bench.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2007, 10:07:12 AM »

Of course, Jasik the Vicious gets $4M to go along with his front row NBA seats.
Knicks might want to take a look at him.  We could certainly use a 3-point shooter.
I was real disappointed in the year Spanoulis had in Houston.  Last summer, I thought he could become a starter by mid-season (Rafer being a below-average PG).

I think Yi should go late lottery, say below #10.
But expect he'll go alot higher.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2007, 10:43:07 AM »

The situation with Jasikevicius reminds me a lot of Marciulionis a few years back.  He got to play for a couple seasons and then was relegated to the bench.  Marcilulionis has been bitter ever since.  I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Jaskikevicius, who is a great guy with loads of talent, but doesn't seem to fit into the scheme of things at GS, which seems is going to be split up next year anyway, given  Chris Cohan's tax problems.  Jaskikevicius probably would be better off with the Knicks, or he may just come back to the Euroleague.
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Kam
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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2007, 01:43:58 PM »

I'm pulling for Memphis to win the Lottery and land Oden.
Then trade Gasol to PHX for their pick (from ATL unless its top 3)
And draft Oden's Ohio State teammate, Conley Jr.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2007, 11:09:20 PM »

Oberto falls down alot.
Utah needs to play more intensely on defense.
This is the playoffs, not the reg season.
Also, Utah missing alot of layups and point blank shots.

Utah led the NBA in 2nd half and 4th Q comebacks from 10 down or more.
Then again they probably didn't accomplish much of that against Spurs level teams.

Portland #1
Sonics #2

A real killer for the Griz.  Drop to 4th, while two other Western C teams get studs.
Knicks (BUlls) pick 9th.
Unfortunately we kept our circa 9th pick in weak drafts to get Sweets and Frye.
And traded away the approx. 9th pick in strong drafts when it could have been Amare/Nene or ____________ this year.



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Kam
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« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2007, 12:24:24 AM »

Noah could be there at Nine.
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You know when, like, you're little, your dad, you think he's Superman. Then when you grow up and realize he's just a regular guy who wears a cape.
-Dave Attell
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