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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 207660 times)

kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11685 on: April 07, 2020, 12:13:57 PM »

At the time, I said No to Curry and that we should trade for TyC instead.  Chip said he wasn't available so my idea was pointless. 


All good.

Chip was probably right.



Open minded fans allow management to run - while giving opinions after seeing both siides.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11686 on: April 07, 2020, 12:29:24 PM »

Chip was wrong.  He was in on Curry while maintaining TyC wasn't available.
Not long after TyC was available.  We should have passed on Curry and waited for TyC.  Or pursued another target.  Knix were impatient as usual.

TyC & Curry should have been a dynamic duo.  And the fact they weren't should have told us a lot.

A lot of times there's a reason a player is available (not counting when a player forces his way out).  He's gimpy (McDice, Bargnani).  He's not motivated or effective (Curry, Bargs).  His defense is poor (Curry, Bargs). 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11687 on: April 07, 2020, 05:34:59 PM »

..or because a team just loves the deal

#2 overall pick - back before protecting picks was a thing.......

tough to pass for Bulls.

When they dealt Chandler it was seemingly a fit thing - which also fell in line with the Curry move.

I didnt see TyC/Curry twin towers as any more promising than Cartwright with Ewing.  Both were true centers.  I guess you could fault Bulls for getting themselves into that mess by drafting the duo rather than going in another direction with one of the picks.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11688 on: April 08, 2020, 12:57:04 AM »

Speaking of the Bulls, it recently came out that they were looking to trade (before the 1994 draft) Pippen and their #1 (pick 21)  for Kemp and their #1 (pick 11)  and would've selected Jalen Rose.  Jordan, Kemp, Rose. 
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11689 on: April 08, 2020, 02:16:50 AM »

Bulls were shopping Curry.
Knix were the mark.
Same with Bargs later.
And both times we gave up too much.


The problem is Knix target the wrong players -- usually big names who are old or big names who are gimpy.  And I think the whole reason is that if you have Marbury or TMac, Steve Francis or Kidd, Curry, Amare, Melo, TyC, etc -- you can market that, and folks come out to see the big names; the team gets buzz, even if some of it is negative.

Basically it's a strategy to sell-out the Garden to corporate accounts and out of states rubes.  Drafting young studs and watching them learn on the job isn't as sexy or sell-able, unless you have the #1 pick. 

It's all a short-term marketing strategy, money-making prioritized over fit or winning.  The constant churn of players and coaches means there's new hope, new uncertainty, people don't get tired of watching the same stale product.  Always a new storyline.  I think the famed NY impatience stems from the management and the desire to sell tickets.

Knix finally stopped trading away 1st rounders (about the only thing Phil did well, an act of omission).  It was too obviously a bad strategy.  The Knix draft reasonably well -- hit or miss, with a good rate of 2nd round overachievers.  But trade terribly.  And trading is usually the mark of impatience.

The other theory, not mutually exclusive, is that the Knicks are staffed by sycophants and incompetents.

 

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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11690 on: April 08, 2020, 12:17:12 PM »

It started with the end of the Ewing era.  Mgmt grew fat on those 15 years of good play and deep playoff runs.  When it was time to let Ewing go they held onto him because they didn't want the money train to slow down.  Then when it was really time to let him go they couldn't appease themselves with cap space "cap space doesn't sell tickets" so they needed more names back in the deal... nevermind they were old names like Baker and Rice.  They were names and the suits coud squeeze another year or two from the Ewing stone by getting those names.  The cycle then kept perpetuating.

The BULLS didn't do that.  They quickly bottomed out after winning chips.  But their strategy failed also becuase they picked in bad drafts or got unlucky with the players health that they picked. High pick after high draft pick amounted to nothing for years.  A small blip with the Rose/Noah team and then back down to lottery hell.

In that timeframe the Lakers won because they had the most dominant player in the game, the Spurs won because they combined luck with smart drafting.  The east was historically weak and only a Detroit team of mid level stars broke up the western hegemony.   The only thing that stopped the West was the start of the "Superteam" era thanks to the Celtics.   The Celtics bold gambit spurred LeBron's superteam dreams.

Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 12:21:44 PM by Kam »
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facilitatorn

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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11692 on: Today at 02:15:24 AM »

Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.

Focusing on championships only is a suckers game.

Knix are so far away from that, so there are numerous intermediate steps.
- find/develop some legit starters
- get a starting caliber PG
- play .500 ball and make the playoffs
- develop a culture and style of play
- maintain continuity
- attain all-star level player or two

If we were where INDy is, it would be a tremendous step up and much more interesting for the fans.  Even if the path to the next level was unclear.

Most NYK fans would be thrilled to be a 2nd tier playoff team trying to figure out the next steps.

Trading KZ for a bag of moldy beans set us back drastically and doesn't bode well for the next 5 years.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11693 on: Today at 12:28:59 PM »

We don't know yet the results of the KP trade.

Might even end up, "well, if we hadn't tossed in Hardaway....."

heh
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kiidcarter8

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« Last Edit: Today at 12:49:21 PM by kiidcarter8 »
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kiidcarter8

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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #11696 on: Today at 01:36:03 PM »

Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.

Focusing on championships only is a suckers game.


It's all or nothing.  Everything else is just disappointment postponed.
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