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6 (50%)

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4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[josh]

[facilitatorn]

The six sectarian authoritarian saboteurs on the Supreme Court are not conservative at all. They are simply terrible human beings in the exact wrong jobs

http://www.vox.com/22662906/supreme-court-conservatives-abortion-constitution-roe-wade

Defenestration can fix this

[josh]

It's not just that Newsom has withstood the recall effort.

So far, higher percentage of voters have said he should not be recalled than elected him in 2018!

More voters have said he should not be recalled, with 2/3rds of the vote in than voted for his opponent in 2018.

It's been 75 years since a winner in a gubernatorial contest has gotten a higher percentage than Newsom will have gotten - Earl Warren with over 90%, amazingly enough, in 1946.

Elder's winning the "Yes" votes, but has less than half of them, to this point.

[facilitatorn]

Elder is still the most likable person in todays GOP. He is probably the one most voters would like to have a beer with. He might as well be the republican nominee in 2024.

[REDSTATEWARD]

I am SHOCKED, I tell you - that so many Republicans oppose an unconstitutional vaccine mandate.  Shocked.

Good thing, then,  that vaccine mandates are not unconstitutional.  And pretty much like literally hundreds of other public health measures throughout our nation's history.

The vaccine mandate proposed by Biden is unconstitutional.

It's not.   Which is why you never actually cite the constitutional basis, but just keep making the same unsupported assertion.

I already have. We covered this when the issue first came up in 2020.
The Federal Government cannot not impose mandates on the states.
New York v. United States (1992) would be a good precedent to learn.

It sure would! You should learn it. What mandate is Biden opposing on the states that you think NY v. US impacts? Because the answer is "none" since Biden is not mandating or incentives legislation by the states.

The mandate being worked on by OSHA.
Biden is trying to work around the Constitution.

Not even in the ball park for the NY v US case. You could drop a nuclear bomb on the NY case and OSHA regulating work place health and safety would not even get radiation burns. The right wing web site you are pulling the argument from is playing you for a gullible ass.

the Ball Park is the Constitution.
NY vs. US established Congress is limited by the Constitution in laws dealing with state mandates.
The President  gets his power from Congress and the Constitution. Neither of which grant him the power to establish state Mandates.
Ergo, as the cited case affirms, the Federal Government has no power to establish state mandates.

The case is about mandating official state actions. What official state action does the vaccine mandate require?

There no Mandate since Biden and his gang  cannot come up with one to pass Constitutional muster.
But, as the Constitution directs and has been endorsed by SCOTUS the Federal government cannot directly compel the States to pass certain laws or act in accord with the Federal government
In Murphy v. NCAA,Justice Alito, writing for the majority,explained  that the Federal government could neither compel a State to enact legislation or forbid it.

Well, you finally at least read the syllabus for the case. Congratulations. What official state action is the vaccine mandate requiring? The answer, to save you time, is none.

None yet.
If there is one it will be unconstitutional.

Yes, and if he attempts to dissolve Congress that will also be unconstitutional. But since he has not indicated he intends to do anything of the sort - either your hypothetical or mine - what in the Holy Name of God are you blathering about?

That any mandate, of a state or a private business by the Federal Government, is unconstitutional.

So, OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

For what?

And with that, Red raises the white flag.

No, you did.
For what reason can OSHA mandate goggles?
You know the answer, that

Ob, you did. So why did you ask?  You made the foolish blanket claim that any fed mandates were unconstitutional. 

And they are

So OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

Or course it can. And you can unleash squirrels

So if Federal mandates are unconstitutional how can a federal agency mandate goggles?

Because goggles and Covid are not comparable.

[Yankguy1]

Goggles and COVID aren't being compared.  It's federal mandates for vaccines and goggles that are.  If you're going to use your formidable legal skills you probably should know what the discussion is about.

[Hairy Lime]

I am SHOCKED, I tell you - that so many Republicans oppose an unconstitutional vaccine mandate.  Shocked.

Good thing, then,  that vaccine mandates are not unconstitutional.  And pretty much like literally hundreds of other public health measures throughout our nation's history.

The vaccine mandate proposed by Biden is unconstitutional.

It's not.   Which is why you never actually cite the constitutional basis, but just keep making the same unsupported assertion.

I already have. We covered this when the issue first came up in 2020.
The Federal Government cannot not impose mandates on the states.
New York v. United States (1992) would be a good precedent to learn.

It sure would! You should learn it. What mandate is Biden opposing on the states that you think NY v. US impacts? Because the answer is "none" since Biden is not mandating or incentives legislation by the states.

The mandate being worked on by OSHA.
Biden is trying to work around the Constitution.

Not even in the ball park for the NY v US case. You could drop a nuclear bomb on the NY case and OSHA regulating work place health and safety would not even get radiation burns. The right wing web site you are pulling the argument from is playing you for a gullible ass.

the Ball Park is the Constitution.
NY vs. US established Congress is limited by the Constitution in laws dealing with state mandates.
The President  gets his power from Congress and the Constitution. Neither of which grant him the power to establish state Mandates.
Ergo, as the cited case affirms, the Federal Government has no power to establish state mandates.

The case is about mandating official state actions. What official state action does the vaccine mandate require?

There no Mandate since Biden and his gang  cannot come up with one to pass Constitutional muster.
But, as the Constitution directs and has been endorsed by SCOTUS the Federal government cannot directly compel the States to pass certain laws or act in accord with the Federal government
In Murphy v. NCAA,Justice Alito, writing for the majority,explained  that the Federal government could neither compel a State to enact legislation or forbid it.

Well, you finally at least read the syllabus for the case. Congratulations. What official state action is the vaccine mandate requiring? The answer, to save you time, is none.

None yet.
If there is one it will be unconstitutional.

Yes, and if he attempts to dissolve Congress that will also be unconstitutional. But since he has not indicated he intends to do anything of the sort - either your hypothetical or mine - what in the Holy Name of God are you blathering about?

That any mandate, of a state or a private business by the Federal Government, is unconstitutional.

So, OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

For what?

And with that, Red raises the white flag.

No, you did.
For what reason can OSHA mandate goggles?
You know the answer, that

Ob, you did. So why did you ask?  You made the foolish blanket claim that any fed mandates were unconstitutional. 

And they are

So OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

Or course it can. And you can unleash squirrels

So if Federal mandates are unconstitutional how can a federal agency mandate goggles?

Because goggles and Covid are not comparable.

So you admit that federal mandates are, or at least can be, constitutional.  We progress.

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

[kidcarter8]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt.  Elder isn't real.  That he wants to run in '22 is no great positive for the Republican party.

[kidcarter8]

By the way - you guys posting entire threads for a one line response are lazy assholes.

[Holly Martins]

I think they may have cracked the previous record

[josh]

The donkey told the tiger, "The grass is blue."
The tiger replied, "No, the grass is green ."
The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.
As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn't it true that the grass is blue?"
The lion replied: "If you believe it is true, the grass is blue."
The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him."
The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence."
The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The grass is blue, the grass is blue..."
The tiger asked the lion, "Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?"
The lion replied, ′′You've known and seen the grass is green."
The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?"
The lion replied, "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!"
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense. There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand. Others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and the only thing that they want is to be right even if they aren

[josh]

https://www.ledgertranscript.com/Survey-One-in-five-New-Hampshire-adults-say-they-won-t-get-vaccinated-42453613

According to the survey, one in five New Hampshire adults say they won

According to the survey, one in five New Hampshire adults say they (will not) get a COVID-19 vaccine, a slight drop from 25 percent who said so in a June poll, which was done before the Delta variant triggered a surge in cases. Ninety percent of those opposed to the vaccines, however, said Delta won

[josh]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

You have backwards who should be embarrassed by the recall.

But of course you do.

[kidcarter8]

Will of the people

Unheard of in any properly run state - though I think its easier in Cali than most

[Holly Martins]

The donkey told the tiger