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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[kidcarter8]

There isn't really any discussion in the Columbus case

Shame that good men are put on leave - and threatened.

[bambu.]

Police are three times more likely to end encounters with black through lethal force.



https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/

Begs the question ...  why?

[Hamilton Samuels]

Some thoughts on the shooting in Columbus:
From what I have seen of the video I believe this inexperienced officer was too quick to shoot.
Whether he will be charged for his actions is not my concern at this time; improving policing policy and procedures is.
Was the girl in pink, up against the car parked halfway in the street, in imminent danger of being
killed by a 16 yr-old wielding a steak knife?  I would have to say no.
The girl being attacked was facing Ms.Bryant and would have made every attempt to defend herself and it appears to me that she was just about to kick Ms.Bryant as the shots were fired.
I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has any skills at using a knife to inflict mortal wounds in
a matter of seconds.
I find it hard to believe that two police officers could not disarm a teenage girl with a knife using their clubs, mace, tasers or hand -to-hand combat skills they had been taught.
And I find it beyond belief that 4 shots were fired at what appears point-blank range.
The argument that there is no way to not "shoot-to-kill" seems absurd to me.  I have fired a handgun and it is just as easy to shoot someon in the butt as it is to shoot someone in the back four times.
These shootings are starting to look contagious, like teenage suicides leading to more.
The shooting in Chicago:  Why didn't the kid throw the gun out where the chasing officer would see it?
Bottom line: police are trained to shoot first and ask questions later.  That has got to change and their training has got to improve.
And we as a society must change so that so many interactions between police and the public do not become potential life and death situations.

(As for the rumor that the girl will the knife was the one who called 911, you have to be in a special class of stupidity to believe that and pass it on.)

Stick to your cartoons.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Some thoughts on the shooting in Columbus:

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has any skills at using a knife to inflict mortal wounds in
a matter of seconds...

DJ,  I agree some of your questions are important and deserve investigation.   However,  you should not find it hard to believe anyone can inflict a mortal wound with a steak knife (or similar) in a second or two.   It happens.  And it can happen in a street fight even where skill levels are low.   Multiple arteries lie not far from the surface of a human body and can be opened up with one slash.

No one asks why this girl was fighting with TWO people in front of her foster home.
People dragging her family and no wants to know what the person who was contractually obligated to see to her care.

I’m not gonna convict the cop but I’m not gonna excuse him either. He did t deliberately kill her but he didn’t deliberately try not to.

Would he have let loose four rounds at a more petite lighter skinned girl? 

There is dead child and so many are busy blaming her and absolving the cop and no one wants to know, “Well. How did I get here?”

He saved a life of a girl who didn't happen to be light-skinned, ICYMI. Sorry, but he had to take one to save one. Sometimes that is how it works. If the girl wasn't out of control with a weapon---translation, didn't assume the danger of taking on that position----she'd be alive.

And how did. she get into that foster home, btw? Cops put her there, too?

Talk about the blame game!

 

 

[Hamilton Samuels]

Some thoughts on the shooting in Columbus:

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has any skills at using a knife to inflict mortal wounds in
a matter of seconds...

DJ,  I agree some of your questions are important and deserve investigation.   However,  you should not find it hard to believe anyone can inflict a mortal wound with a steak knife (or similar) in a second or two.   It happens.  And it can happen in a street fight even where skill levels are low.   Multiple arteries lie not far from the surface of a human body and can be opened up with one slash.

Barton,  you are right that could have happened....and it could have happened that the girl knocked to the ground and kicked in the head could have received a brain injury leading to death.  The officer didn't shot the kicker, did he?  I am just saying it is very possible the girl in pink
defending herself and raising her right leg to kick her attacker could have knocked the attacker
to the ground right at the feet of the officer with the drawn gun.
Possible scenario:  Imagine a person wants to fight and hurt another person but is not sure they
can beat that person in a fair fight.  The reason for the fight is to show that you can't disrespect me in front of my family and get away with it.  So you grab a knife and chase this person outside
on the front lawn in the middle of the afternoon in plain view of all the neighbors and the 4. Or 5 others who were in the house.  You want an audience to show that you are not someone who can be messed with.  The arrival of the police sets things in motion. Why, because now you know you can slash at someone with a knife and know the police will intervene to stop you.  Which is fine
because you got your point made and can honestly say, "Good thing the police stopped me or I
would have cut the B..... , but good!" 
Far fetched, Barton? 
And what if it turns out that the knife was a dull butter knife? Does that change things?

My thought is that as things were unfolding at the moment the 4 shots were  fired that in another second the situation could have changed drastically and no shots would have been fired and no one
Would have died.  Is that wishful thinking on my part?  Having a lot of experience breaking up fights among teenage girls, I see it as fairly likely.

 

Stop.

It's not wishful thinking. It's not thinking on your part.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Wow,  it looks like you,  KC,  didn't even read Larry's link and its statistical analysis...

This was THE FIRST PARAGRAPH....

  Black Americans are 3.23 times more likely than white Americans to be killed by police, according to a new study by researchers from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. The researchers examined 5,494 police-related deaths in the U.S. between 2013 and 2017. Rates of deadly police encounters were higher in the West and South than in the Midwest and Northeast, according to the study. Racial disparities in killings by police varied widely across the country, with some metropolitan areas showing very high differences between treatment by race. Black Chicagoans, for example, were found to be over 650% more likely to be killed by police than white Chicagoans.... 

According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other"/Unknown 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.


And...


While non-Hispanic white victims account for approximately half of total non-fatal assault injuries, most of which did not involve any weapon, black and Hispanic victims account for the vast majority of non-fatal firearm injuries. There was a total of 17.3 million emergency department visits or hospitalizations for non-fatal assaults in the United States in the 10-year period between 2007–2016. For non-fatal assaults with recorded race, 6.5 million victims were white non-Hispanic, 4.3 million black, 2.3 million Hispanic and 0.4 million other (non-Hispanic) and for 3.8 million, the race was not recorded. There were a total of 603,000 emergency department visits in the US for non-fatal firearm assaults in the 10-year period between 2007–2016. For non-fatal firearm assaults with recorded race, 77,000 victims were white non-Hispanic, 261,000 were black and 94,000 were Hispanic, 8,500 were other non-Hispanic and for 162,000 the race was not recorded. Despite gun injuries only accounting for about 3.5% of serious assault injuries between 2007 and 2016, they accounted for nearly 70% of overall homicides.[56]

While African Americans are highly overrepresented in murders and gun assaults, the disparity in arrests is small for the most common form of assault not involving any weapon or serious injury (non-aggravated assault). Hispanics and non-Hispanic whites are arrested for non-aggravated assault in a similar ratio to their share of the US population. Of the 9,468 murder arrests in the US in 2017, 53.5% were black and 20.8% Hispanic. Of the 822,671 arrests for non-aggravated assault, 31.4% were black and 18.4% Hispanic.[57]

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2008, black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws, and drunkenness. Racial disparities in arrest have consistently been far less among older population groups.[58]



wikipedia



Draw your conclusions, now.

[Hamilton Samuels]

MODERATION wins.

..so far, Biden has disarmed conservative critics who claimed that he would be a “socialist,” and leftist critics who claimed he would be an establishment politician who wouldn’t get anything done.

So far, the president has exceeded expectations.


https://news.yahoo.com/100-days-biden-outwitted-critics-232927082.html

[barton]

Math is our friend...

42 killings.  18/42 = 43% of them are blacks

However,  only 13% of US population is black.

Except those figures were for unarmed persons killed.

From where were they taken,  and from what year?  The figure was unsourced and even if it's accurate then it still supports Larry's point that blacks are killed disproportionately to their numbers in the US.   If neither you nor Kid looked at the statistics Larry and I provided,  nor understand basic math,  then why not sit this discussion out?   Kid can't seem to manage anything but the vacuous and inane "attaboy. " 

And yes,  we can look at crime analysis and see what the reasons might be for this disparity.   If I recall my days doing IT work for a state DOJ,  one of the big factors was poverty.   Youth in poverty are more at risk,  and more likely to have interactions with law enforcement.  That's one of the factors when you have a minority with higher rates of poverty.   That's why affordable housing,  food,  childcare,  medical care, and decent schools correlate with drops in crime rate and fewer at-risk youth.  Those things help those in poverty.   And what else helps?   Reducing police bias in their contacts with people living in low-income neighborhoods.  Requiring police to live in the community they work in would be a start.

[REDSTATEWARD]

New MIT Study finds no difference on social distancing indoors between 6 feet or 60 feet.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/mit-study-covid-social-distancing

[LarryBnDC]

Some thoughts on the shooting in Columbus:

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has any skills at using a knife to inflict mortal wounds in
a matter of seconds...

DJ,  I agree some of your questions are important and deserve investigation.   However,  you should not find it hard to believe anyone can inflict a mortal wound with a steak knife (or similar) in a second or two.   It happens.  And it can happen in a street fight even where skill levels are low.   Multiple arteries lie not far from the surface of a human body and can be opened up with one slash.

No one asks why this girl was fighting with TWO people in front of her foster home.
People dragging her family and no wants to know what the person who was contractually obligated to see to her care.

I’m not gonna convict the cop but I’m not gonna excuse him either. He did t deliberately kill her but he didn’t deliberately try not to.

Would he have let loose four rounds at a more petite lighter skinned girl? 

There is dead child and so many are busy blaming her and absolving the cop and no one wants to know, “Well. How did I get here?”

He saved a life of a girl who didn't happen to be light-skinned, ICYMI. Sorry, but he had to take one to save one. Sometimes that is how it works. If the girl wasn't out of control with a weapon---translation, didn't assume the danger of taking on that position----she'd be alive.

And how did. she get into that foster home, btw? Cops put her there, too?

Talk about the blame game!

The other “girls” were 20 and 22 years old.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Math is our friend...

42 killings.  18/42 = 43% of them are blacks

However,  only 13% of US population is black.

Except those figures were for unarmed persons killed.

From where were they taken,  and from what year?  The figure was unsourced and even if it's accurate then it still supports Larry's point that blacks are killed disproportionately to their numbers in the US.   If neither you nor Kid looked at the statistics Larry and I provided,  nor understand basic math,  then why not sit this discussion out?

I only pointed out the relevance of the statistics that confused you.


   

[REDSTATEWARD]

Now, in the back of every police officer's mind is the knowledge that there are 400 million guns
out there and this person might have one or them.  Well they can thank their local NRA and the High Court for not having a reasonable grasp of what "a well-regulated MILITIA" means.

Actually the 2008 SCOTUS Heller case addressed and settled that question.
The Court held


The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 infringe an individual's right to bear arms as protected by the Second Amendment.



Writing for the majority, Antonin Scalia argued
that the operative clause of the amendment, “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed,” codifies an individual right derived from English common law and codified in the English Bill of Rights (1689). The majority held that the Second Amendment’s preamble, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,” is consistent with this interpretation when understood in light of the framers’ belief that the most effective way to destroy a citizens’ militia was to disarm the citizens. The majority also found that United States v. Miller supported an individual-right rather than a collective-right view, contrary to the dominant 20th-century interpretation of that decision. (In Miller, the Supreme Court unanimously held that a federal law requiring the registration of sawed-off shotguns did not violate the Second Amendment because such weapons did not have a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.”) Finally, the court held that, because the framers understood the right of self-defense to be “the central component” of the right to keep and bear arms, the Second Amendment implicitly protects the right “to use arms in defense of hearth and home.”

[facilitatorn]

Is the petroleum industry ready for extruded hemp to replace whole swathes of popular plastic applications starting with bags and straws?

Given that polyethylene is what they're pinning their hopes on (building new plants even as we speak) (creating new cancer clusters,  as ethylene oxide is a serious carcinogen), we may confidently say "hell no. "  And their opening salvos against hemp will probably include "that land could grow food!"

They can say what they want. Contracts are done. The wheel is in motion on a pretty grand scale just to start.

[Oilcandide]

When they do say stuff like that,  it's important people can counter with facts like hemp is nitrogen-fixing and makes a good rotation crop with corn and wheat.   Let that wheel turn!   

[Hamilton Samuels]

Some thoughts on the shooting in Columbus:
From what I have seen of the video I believe this inexperienced officer was too quick to shoot.
Whether he will be charged for his actions is not my concern at this time; improving policing policy and procedures is.
Was the girl in pink, up against the car parked halfway in the street, in imminent danger of being
killed by a 16 yr-old wielding a steak knife?  I would have to say no.
The girl being attacked was facing Ms.Bryant and would have made every attempt to defend herself and it appears to me that she was just about to kick Ms.Bryant as the shots were fired.
I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has any skills at using a knife to inflict mortal wounds in
a matter of seconds.
I find it hard to believe that two police officers could not disarm a teenage girl with a knife using their clubs, mace, tasers or hand -to-hand combat skills they had been taught.
And I find it beyond belief that 4 shots were fired at what appears point-blank range.
The argument that there is no way to not "shoot-to-kill" seems absurd to me.  I have fired a handgun and it is just as easy to shoot someon in the butt as it is to shoot someone in the back four times.
These shootings are starting to look contagious, like teenage suicides leading to more.
The shooting in Chicago:  Why didn't the kid throw the gun out where the chasing officer would see it?
Bottom line: police are trained to shoot first and ask questions later.  That has got to change and their training has got to improve.
And we as a society must change so that so many interactions between police and the public do not become potential life and death situations.

(As for the rumor that the girl will the knife was the one who called 911, you have to be in a special class of stupidity to believe that and pass it on.)

Stick to your cartoons.

Looking for a new sparring partner?  Sorry my dance card is filled.
Glad to hear you like cartoons.

Maybe you should draw one showing a harmless raging knife wielder.