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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hairy Lime]

So,  Barton and Bo are both back.   Elba is the Hotel California, you can check out any time you like but...

I like The Third Man allusion.  We haven't found Lime yet.

Check the sewers. Next time have a foolproof coffin.

[Hairy Lime]

 Bart do you know how Elba got its name?

Who is Bart?  I'm just another person who happened to live in Newton.  I once stepped on Isaac Asimov's foot at the Unitarian Church in West Newton.  Truth.  I consumed frappes, and put jimmies on my ice cream.  Many dinners at the top of the Pru.  I once dropped a dinner fork and killed Kevin White's second cousin at street level.  Ah, youthful folly!

And, yes, of freaking course I know.  I was a member of the NYT forums from around 1998 on.  Into exile we all went in the early oughts, and this island was one of the places of refuge.

Nope that's not quite right Holly

"Escape from Elba"

This place isn't Elba. Nor was the NYT Forum.

In context, what does Elba refer to?

In fairness, if you weren't on the Yankees forum you wouldn't know.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Josh,  why do I have to keep answering verification questions?   And why does the New York Times question require newbies to figure out it has to have a "The" in front of it?   For that matter,  why is this a question people need to know the answer to?   Are all newcomers required to know our site history before they join?   And the verification letter code is extremely hard to read.   

Hi,  Banks.   Newton says hello.   Heh.

Hi Bart-I was pretty certain Molly wasn't one of Hammy's or Red's alter-egos.

Really there's a history entrance exam to gain entry to Elba?

It sounds like we're designed to keep people out and not be inclusive!

This should be thoroughly discussed by the Island's Council of Extremely Woke

LMAO


 

HA!

The agenda is already quite crowded. Maybe they'll get to that by next Tuesday.

I doubt a request to have new members find their way in (without having to know what happened sixteen years ago) makes anyone woke.  I remain an Independent, fiscal conservative, and iconoclast beholden to no party or platform. 

Since "woke" seems to now be a vague slur that has no real agreed meaning, I will only say that I think skewing Left in states like Iowa probably is counterproductive if the Democratic Party is seeking to expand its influence there.  That said, I see no wrong in being awakened to genuine areas of social injustice and realizing you want to speak out against them.  Those are real issues that deserve genuine discussion on their logic and evidence, and not on single-word smears like "woke," which seem to be the easy recourse of lazy minds.  Like "social justice warrior," rather than just post wiki entries, it might be more fruitful to state in clear terms where you believe the pursuit of social justice is mistaken or wrong.  As the hard-to-find HAIRY LIME has pointed out, what is wrong with fighting for social justice? 

Did I just see a cat run into the shadowed doorway?

Being woke is fine, if it is restricted to attempting to address injustice and equality in a fair and just manner.

One might ask, also, who among us has always been treated fairly?

The problem with the woke crowd has become its penchant for shutting down real debate, for creating a hidden tightrope of closed-mindedness that one must walk. The end game is to go after anyone who does not align perfectly with the woke values, values that seem often to reflect the opposite of the original intent of the woke.

One can not preach tolerance and inclusion, without practicing it, and that is what is happening here.

“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically ‘woke’ and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly. The world is messy; there are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws. People who you are fighting may love their kids, and share certain things with you.”---President Obama, in a 2019 interview for the Obama Foundation on youth activism.

Take Little Stevie, the Committed Catholic of AZ. His commentary to almost anyone with whom he disagrees is a perfect example of doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." 

Too many folks here run around labeling everyone they disagree with a "racist"; they're more likely to create a racist than they are to stop someone from being one.

If you want others to be "woke", live what you preach.

Name one of the SJWs here who has shown they do that.

[bankshot1]

And Holly

That said, I see no wrong in being awakened to genuine areas of social injustice and realizing you want to speak out against them. 

I agree, the key word is genuine.

IMO there is little to be gained by pointing guilty fingers at people who laughed 10 years ago at what are now politically incorrect jokes, or fire 20 somethings for a twitter post made as a teen-ager, or censor movies made 50 years ago.
Or spouting stupid slogans like "defund police" that only will retard real social progress by pissing off mostly decent voters who are tired of the woke bullshit, who will say, "fuck them all" and stay home.

I could give you a more pointed example, but seeing as you're new here, I will restrain my self-righteous bullshit.

[Hamilton Samuels]

If banks and I are in sync on an issue, then you know that there is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

[Oilcanary]

 Bart do you know how Elba got its name?

Who is Bart?  I'm just another person who happened to live in Newton.  I once stepped on Isaac Asimov's foot at the Unitarian Church in West Newton.  Truth.  I consumed frappes, and put jimmies on my ice cream.  Many dinners at the top of the Pru.  I once dropped a dinner fork and killed Kevin White's second cousin at street level.  Ah, youthful folly!

And, yes, of freaking course I know.  I was a member of the NYT forums from around 1998 on.  Into exile we all went in the early oughts, and this island was one of the places of refuge.

Nope that's not quite right Holly

"Escape from Elba"

This place isn't Elba. Nor was the NYT Forum.

In context, what does Elba refer to?

I don't think I ever knew that, and I go back to around 1999 at NYTFs.  I figured that Elba was some worse place, after the diaspora, and this site was a way to get back onto a bullletin board with a NYT-like structure.

[Hamilton Samuels]

David Brooks put it this way in 2018:

The problem with wokeness is that it doesn’t inspire action; it freezes it. To be woke is first and foremost to put yourself on display. To make a problem seem massively intractable is to inspire separation — building a wall between you and the problem — not a solution.

There’s a debate on precisely this point now surrounding the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates. Coates is, of course, well known for seeing the problem of racism in maximalist terms. The entire American story was and continues to be based on “plunder,” the violent crushing of minority bodies. Even today, “ ‘gentrification’ is but a more pleasing name for white supremacy.”

Coates is very honest about his pessimism and his hopeless view of the situation. But a number of writers have criticized his stance. Cornel West has argued that it’s all words; it doesn’t lead to collective action. In The New York Review of Books, Darryl Pinckney argues, “Afro-pessimism threatens no one, and white audiences confuse having been chastised with learning.”

I’d add that it’s a blunt fact that most great social reforms have happened in moments of optimism, not moments of pessimism, in moments of encouraging progress, not in moments of perceived threat.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/opinion/wokeness-racism-progressivism-social-justice.html

[Hairy Lime]

Josh,  why do I have to keep answering verification questions?   And why does the New York Times question require newbies to figure out it has to have a "The" in front of it?   For that matter,  why is this a question people need to know the answer to?   Are all newcomers required to know our site history before they join?   And the verification letter code is extremely hard to read.   

Hi,  Banks.   Newton says hello.   Heh.

Hi Bart-I was pretty certain Molly wasn't one of Hammy's or Red's alter-egos.

Really there's a history entrance exam to gain entry to Elba?

It sounds like we're designed to keep people out and not be inclusive!

This should be thoroughly discussed by the Island's Council of Extremely Woke

LMAO


 

HA!

The agenda is already quite crowded. Maybe they'll get to that by next Tuesday.

I doubt a request to have new members find their way in (without having to know what happened sixteen years ago) makes anyone woke.  I remain an Independent, fiscal conservative, and iconoclast beholden to no party or platform. 

Since "woke" seems to now be a vague slur that has no real agreed meaning, I will only say that I think skewing Left in states like Iowa probably is counterproductive if the Democratic Party is seeking to expand its influence there.  That said, I see no wrong in being awakened to genuine areas of social injustice and realizing you want to speak out against them.  Those are real issues that deserve genuine discussion on their logic and evidence, and not on single-word smears like "woke," which seem to be the easy recourse of lazy minds.  Like "social justice warrior," rather than just post wiki entries, it might be more fruitful to state in clear terms where you believe the pursuit of social justice is mistaken or wrong.  As the hard-to-find HAIRY LIME has pointed out, what is wrong with fighting for social justice? 

Did I just see a cat run into the shadowed doorway?

Being woke is fine, if it is restricted to attempting to address injustice and equality in a fair and just manner.

One might ask, also, who among us has always been treated fairly?

The problem with the woke crowd has become its penchant for shutting down real debate, for creating a hidden tightrope of closed-mindedness that one must walk. The end game is to go after anyone who does not align perfectly with the woke values, values that seem often to reflect the opposite of the original intent of the woke.

One can not preach tolerance and inclusion, without practicing it, and that is what is happening here.

“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically ‘woke’ and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly. The world is messy; there are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws. People who you are fighting may love their kids, and share certain things with you.”---President Obama, in a 2019 interview for the Obama Foundation on youth activism.

Take Little Stevie, the Committed Catholic of AZ. His commentary to almost anyone with whom he disagrees is a perfect example of doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." 

Too many folks here run around labeling everyone they disagree with a "racist"; they're more likely to create a racist than they are to stop someone from being one.

If you want others to be "woke", live what you preach.

Name one of the SJWs here who has shown they do that.

I know of no one here who labels everyone they disagree with racist. I describe YOU as a racist because you post things that indicate YOU are a racist, Buckwheat. You are judged by what you post.

[Hairy Lime]

And Holly

That said, I see no wrong in being awakened to genuine areas of social injustice and realizing you want to speak out against them. 

I agree, the key word is genuine.

IMO there is little to be gained by pointing guilty fingers at people who laughed 10 years ago at what are now politically incorrect jokes, or fire 20 somethings for a twitter post made as a teen-ager, or censor movies made 50 years ago.
Or spouting stupid slogans like "defund police" that only will retard real social progress by pissing off mostly decent voters who are tired of the woke bullshit, who will say, "fuck them all" and stay home.

I could give you a more pointed example, but seeing as you're new here, I will restrain my self-righteous bullshit.

Well now, everything has excess. Id est quod est.

The one thing I would point out is that things like movies and books and jokes still have the power of immediate experience. Which includes the power to hurt and extend negative stereotypes and pointing out issues with, say, Gone With the Wind, or some of Dr. Seuss's work, or - God knows I am a committed Marxist of the Grouchoian sort but - A Day at the Races serves a current purpose.

[Holly Martins]

I agree with Brooks on the pseudo-wokeness.  I don't identify any of my expressed positions here with that, however, and I  was one of the only members here (AFAIK) who reported marching in local demonstrations for police reform.  I stood peacefully while people fired paintball guns and vile slurs at us.  Maybe Ham missed those posts, as he does so many when he's off molting.  Like millions of Americans, I wasn't in favor of defunding, nor did I think the problem was "massively intractable," was just a citizen making their voice heard.  Nor do I favor reparations, except in the more laser-focused way that Cory Booker has suggested to help young folks in poverty get a college education.  But, sigh, all the nuances I've offered here get spat back at me with false renderings or the weird notion that because I sometimes agree with those on the Left here I must ergo agree with everything in some sort of monolithic "cabal."   That's not argument, that's cheap smearing. 

[bankshot1]

 Bart do you know how Elba got its name?

Who is Bart?  I'm just another person who happened to live in Newton.  I once stepped on Isaac Asimov's foot at the Unitarian Church in West Newton.  Truth.  I consumed frappes, and put jimmies on my ice cream.  Many dinners at the top of the Pru.  I once dropped a dinner fork and killed Kevin White's second cousin at street level.  Ah, youthful folly!

And, yes, of freaking course I know.  I was a member of the NYT forums from around 1998 on.  Into exile we all went in the early oughts, and this island was one of the places of refuge.

Nope that's not quite right Holly

"Escape from Elba"

This place isn't Elba. Nor was the NYT Forum.

In context, what does Elba refer to?

I don't think I ever knew that, and I go back to around 1999 at NYTFs.  I figured that Elba was some worse place, after the diaspora, and this site was a way to get back onto a bullletin board with a NYT-like structure.

OC-Elba was a web site started and sponsored by a banned NYT poster, Trish, who ran it with an iron-fist. I think she started it in '02-'04. A few here were invited to join. I would drop in there from time to time, but it wasn't my cup of tea. I got excommunicated in a trial held there for making fun of Trish. On one thread I was arguing with Cap Cargo about baseball and on another thread presenting my defense. It was hilarious. 

I referred to it as Elba and liq ran with it when he opened this place. 

[josh]

 Bart do you know how Elba got its name?

Who is Bart?  I'm just another person who happened to live in Newton.  I once stepped on Isaac Asimov's foot at the Unitarian Church in West Newton.  Truth.  I consumed frappes, and put jimmies on my ice cream.  Many dinners at the top of the Pru.  I once dropped a dinner fork and killed Kevin White's second cousin at street level.  Ah, youthful folly!

And, yes, of freaking course I know.  I was a member of the NYT forums from around 1998 on.  Into exile we all went in the early oughts, and this island was one of the places of refuge.

I always assumed that Elba was our exile from the times and Escape was coming here from the exile.

Asimov was a character, but not one I would leave my daughter with in an elevator. Nor could I convince him to lobby for the kind of education he thought we ought to have.

No idea what the KW cousin reference is to, but "The Loner in Love with His City" and I sat a whopping 8 feet apart at dinner in northern NH, once upon a time. It was not a deeply moving occasion, nobody's fork got dropped, and I did not even bother hizzoner for an autograph.

Brigham's made a fine ice cream. (I know some would claim that since you can buy it in the stores, they still make a fine ice cream, but you sure can't just get a Brigham's frappe!)

Steve's (and then Herrell's) had better ice cream. Herrell's still does.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Josh,  why do I have to keep answering verification questions?   And why does the New York Times question require newbies to figure out it has to have a "The" in front of it?   For that matter,  why is this a question people need to know the answer to?   Are all newcomers required to know our site history before they join?   And the verification letter code is extremely hard to read.   

Hi,  Banks.   Newton says hello.   Heh.

Hi Bart-I was pretty certain Molly wasn't one of Hammy's or Red's alter-egos.

Really there's a history entrance exam to gain entry to Elba?

It sounds like we're designed to keep people out and not be inclusive!

This should be thoroughly discussed by the Island's Council of Extremely Woke

LMAO


 

HA!

The agenda is already quite crowded. Maybe they'll get to that by next Tuesday.

I doubt a request to have new members find their way in (without having to know what happened sixteen years ago) makes anyone woke.  I remain an Independent, fiscal conservative, and iconoclast beholden to no party or platform. 

Since "woke" seems to now be a vague slur that has no real agreed meaning, I will only say that I think skewing Left in states like Iowa probably is counterproductive if the Democratic Party is seeking to expand its influence there.  That said, I see no wrong in being awakened to genuine areas of social injustice and realizing you want to speak out against them.  Those are real issues that deserve genuine discussion on their logic and evidence, and not on single-word smears like "woke," which seem to be the easy recourse of lazy minds.  Like "social justice warrior," rather than just post wiki entries, it might be more fruitful to state in clear terms where you believe the pursuit of social justice is mistaken or wrong.  As the hard-to-find HAIRY LIME has pointed out, what is wrong with fighting for social justice? 

Did I just see a cat run into the shadowed doorway?

Being woke is fine, if it is restricted to attempting to address injustice and equality in a fair and just manner.

One might ask, also, who among us has always been treated fairly?

The problem with the woke crowd has become its penchant for shutting down real debate, for creating a hidden tightrope of closed-mindedness that one must walk. The end game is to go after anyone who does not align perfectly with the woke values, values that seem often to reflect the opposite of the original intent of the woke.

One can not preach tolerance and inclusion, without practicing it, and that is what is happening here.

“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically ‘woke’ and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly. The world is messy; there are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws. People who you are fighting may love their kids, and share certain things with you.”---President Obama, in a 2019 interview for the Obama Foundation on youth activism.

Take Little Stevie, the Committed Catholic of AZ. His commentary to almost anyone with whom he disagrees is a perfect example of doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." 

Too many folks here run around labeling everyone they disagree with a "racist"; they're more likely to create a racist than they are to stop someone from being one.

If you want others to be "woke", live what you preach.

Name one of the SJWs here who has shown they do that.

I know of no one here who labels everyone they disagree with racist. I describe YOU as a racist because you post things that indicate YOU are a racist, Buckwheat. You are judged by what you post.

Thanks for proving my point. If you were consistent as a moral umpire, that would be one thing, but you've never once held anyone here accountable for the racism contained within their posts that use words like "cracker" and frame all issues as the problem of whitey, or characterized the entire GOP membership as old white men whose goal is to oppress POC.

As for being judged, Jesus will be happy to remember this exchange on Judgement Day.

[facilitatorn]

If banks and I are in sync on an issue, then you know that there is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

Yup. Fragile whiteness.

We’re not wasting horses or men putting you back together.

The thing about a good egg like you is there’s no telling where the head ends and the big big ass begins.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Lots of people don't know this, but Napoleon did a lot of good for the people of Elba.