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6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[LarryBnDC]

Next time someone talks about fiscal responsibility remind them the USA spent $300,000,000 per DAY for 20 fucking years on war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[facilitatorn]

Yank has raised a nuanced point about the political calculus of drifting center.   I think the legislation you obtain when the centrists balk at full throttle progressive bills  is a case of "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. "  Larry raises the.reasonable question of how much good are half-measures.  I really can't tell.   I don't think there was ever much chance that senators from states like WV or AZ were going to keep their pink tutus on once elected.  I doubt WV would have ever elected a Democrat if it weren't for their coal miner/Mother Jones heritage which still generates some sort of legacy loyalty among working class folk.   I suspect that would cave in pretty quick if Manchin went full prog.

Democrats went half in on Obamacare and did not convince enough people good healthcare was not socialism so they got shellacked.

Try killing ACA now.

Same with reconciliation and voting rights bills.

Half assed will not do.

This is worth discussion -- why won't a half assed voting rights bill do?  Would not just the ban on gerrymandering be extremely valuable?  Or give up the fight against voter ID for now,  but get something that shields county election boards from overthrow by state legislatures?  Half an ass doesn't rule out  getting the other half later. 

If the levee is about to break,  you bulldoze as fast as you can,  not sit around waiting for the Army Corps of Engineers to drop in a new levee. 

(edit: typo)

Where are the 10 GOP votes coming from for voting rights?

If the GOP votes are not forthcoming why bother negotiating the bill down to half measures?

Especially when the full measure is more popular than the half measures and is supported by 80 percent of the country.

[josh]

Next time someone talks about fiscal responsibility remind them the USA spent $300,000,000 per DAY for 20 fucking years on war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But don't expect it to change their mind in the slightest.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Yank has raised a nuanced point about the political calculus of drifting center.   I think the legislation you obtain when the centrists balk at full throttle progressive bills  is a case of "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. "  Larry raises the.reasonable question of how much good are half-measures.  I really can't tell.   I don't think there was ever much chance that senators from states like WV or AZ were going to keep their pink tutus on once elected.  I doubt WV would have ever elected a Democrat if it weren't for their coal miner/Mother Jones heritage which still generates some sort of legacy loyalty among working class folk.   I suspect that would cave in pretty quick if Manchin went full prog.

Democrats went half in on Obamacare and did not convince enough people good healthcare was not socialism so they got shellacked.

Try killing ACA now.

Same with reconciliation and voting rights bills.

Half assed will not do.

This is worth discussion -- why won't a half assed voting rights bill do?

Half assed or fully assed the bill is unconstitutional.

[Holly Martins]

Yank has raised a nuanced point about the political calculus of drifting center.   I think the legislation you obtain when the centrists balk at full throttle progressive bills  is a case of "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. "  Larry raises the.reasonable question of how much good are half-measures.  I really can't tell.   I don't think there was ever much chance that senators from states like WV or AZ were going to keep their pink tutus on once elected.  I doubt WV would have ever elected a Democrat if it weren't for their coal miner/Mother Jones heritage which still generates some sort of legacy loyalty among working class folk.   I suspect that would cave in pretty quick if Manchin went full prog.

Democrats went half in on Obamacare and did not convince enough people good healthcare was not socialism so they got shellacked.

Try killing ACA now.

Same with reconciliation and voting rights bills.

Half assed will not do.

This is worth discussion -- why won't a half assed voting rights bill do?  Would not just the ban on gerrymandering be extremely valuable?  Or give up the fight against voter ID for now,  but get something that shields county election boards from overthrow by state legislatures?  Half an ass doesn't rule out  getting the other half later. 

If the levee is about to break,  you bulldoze as fast as you can,  not sit around waiting for the Army Corps of Engineers to drop in a new levee. 

(edit: typo)

Where are the 10 GOP votes coming from for voting rights?

If the GOP votes are not forthcoming why bother negotiating the bill down to half measures?

Because that's what the Sineman girl can be happy the rest of her life with?   Because then she and the Chin can then sell themselves as agents of bipartisanship while they hold their noses and pull the filibuster?   I really have no idea what goes on in their cognitively dissonant heads.   

[FlyingVProd]

Next time someone talks about fiscal responsibility remind them the USA spent $300,000,000 per DAY for 20 fucking years on war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And they still did not stop the flow of heroin into the USA from Afghanistan! That is how corrupt the world is. They cannot even keep heroin out of the prisons. The terrorists are flooding our streets with heroin and they are getting our people addicted. Drug addiction is one of the most evil things I have ever seen. I had to help an uncle get off of heroin and it was one of the hardest things I ever did. I hate drugs so bad. Heroin is evil.

Salute,

Tony V.

[facilitatorn]

It accelerated the flow of heroin into the US Tony

Republicans always push drugs

It is part of their no fucks given approach to governing

[Holly Martins]

Half assed or fully assed the bill is unconstitutional.

 See the elections clause, Article I,  section four

But the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing senators 

[kidcarter8]

The terrorists attacked the World Trade Center because they did not want us to expand world trade.

That's not why.

They attacked it because it was a hugely visible target and would get a lot of attention.

So's the fucking Grand Canyon

[REDSTATEWARD]

Half assed or fully assed the bill is unconstitutional.

 See the elections clause, Article I,  section four

But the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing senators 

Scalia writing for the majority in the 2013 SCOTUS decision noted the Constitution empowers Congress to regulate how federal elections are held, but not who may vote in them
That is just a starting point that already 20 State Attorneys General are itching to file lawsuits challenging the law, if adopted.

[facilitatorn]

Those are the twenty who were actively committing treason up to and beyond Jan 6 will likely sue

Right wing corruption and perversion wont go down without a fight

Republican leaders know that they have no place in any democracy

[LarryBnDC]

Yank has raised a nuanced point about the political calculus of drifting center.   I think the legislation you obtain when the centrists balk at full throttle progressive bills  is a case of "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. "  Larry raises the.reasonable question of how much good are half-measures.  I really can't tell.   I don't think there was ever much chance that senators from states like WV or AZ were going to keep their pink tutus on once elected.  I doubt WV would have ever elected a Democrat if it weren't for their coal miner/Mother Jones heritage which still generates some sort of legacy loyalty among working class folk.   I suspect that would cave in pretty quick if Manchin went full prog.

Democrats went half in on Obamacare and did not convince enough people good healthcare was not socialism so they got shellacked.

Try killing ACA now.

Same with reconciliation and voting rights bills.

Half assed will not do.

This is worth discussion -- why won't a half assed voting rights bill do?

Half assed or fully assed the bill is unconstitutional.

You should read the Constitution at least once in your life.

[LarryBnDC]

The terrorists attacked the World Trade Center because they did not want us to expand world trade.

That's not why.

They attacked it because it was a hugely visible target and would get a lot of attention.

So's the fucking Grand Canyon

The Grand Canyon is not the Financial center of the developed world, nor the seat of the US government, nor the HQ of the US Military.

[kidcarter8]

CORRECT, LB

Get witchyer boy and get the story straight

[REDSTATEWARD]

Manchin on CNN
I will not vote for a 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation Bill