Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Very

6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[bambu.]

https://global.lockton.com/gb/en/news-insights/statistics-show-that-mass-shooting-events-are-on-the-rise-in-the-us

Gun sales are up.

So are mass shooting events.

You Republicans are just not thinking or praying hard enough.

Emphasis on thinking.

Of course gun sales are up...people are scared...there's a rape or attempted rape in America every 5 minutes. People are being raped and murdered in their own homes by armed thugs.
Their children are being kidnapped.
A home is invaded every 25 seconds or something like that. Bad people are entering dwellings when the residents are home.

You only have to watch a few American movies to see why Americans are buying guns for self defence.
If Mexican cartels are after you, the only things that will save you are your guns...handguns and machine guns. Gotta have money to buy more guns if cops on the highway confiscate your registered legal ones...for some reason. Cash is king in America.

Cocked and ready to fire.  Just the cost of doing business. Collateral damage.  Second Amendment!!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/woman-zoom-shot-toddler/index.html

Obviously not a fingerprint trigger gun.

Loaded guns must be worn, no good being left lying around...that's when this kind of thing happens.
Home invader is climbing thru the window, there's no time to go get the gun.

[Holly Martins]

I noticed that.   Still makes no sense.   Why is the will of the people unheard of in any properly run state?

Just to piss you off.
It is working.

Not remotely pissed.   I view blather as entertaining.  And enjoy asking questions.   

[LarryBnDC]

https://global.lockton.com/gb/en/news-insights/statistics-show-that-mass-shooting-events-are-on-the-rise-in-the-us

Gun sales are up.

So are mass shooting events.

You Republicans are just not thinking or praying hard enough.

Emphasis on thinking.

Of course gun sales are up...people are scared...there's a rape or attempted rape in America every 5 minutes. People are being raped and murdered in their own homes by armed thugs.
Their children are being kidnapped.
A home is invaded every 25 seconds or something like that. Bad people are entering dwellings when the residents are home.

You only have to watch a few American movies to see why Americans are buying guns for self defence.
If Mexican cartels are after you, the only things that will save you are your guns...handguns and machine guns. Gotta have money to buy more guns if cops on the highway confiscate your registered legal ones...for some reason. Cash is king in America.

Cocked and ready to fire.  Just the cost of doing business. Collateral damage.  Second Amendment!!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/woman-zoom-shot-toddler/index.html

HOT SHIT!

Let me in now, let me in now
Bill Gates, Donald Trump let me in now
Spin now, I got money to lend my friends now
We in now, candy Benz, Kenwood and 10"s now
I win now (Whoo!) Fuckin lesbian twins now
Seein now, through the pen I make my ends now

Im goin down down baby, yo street in a Range Rover (c'mon)
Street sweeper baby, cocked ready to let it go (HOT SHIT!)
Shimmy shimmy cocoa what? Listen to it pound
Light it up and take a puff, pass it to me now
Im goin down down baby, yo street in a Range Rover (c'mon)
Street sweeper baby, cocked ready to let it go
Shimmy shimmy cocoa what? Listen to it pound
Light it up and take a puff, pass it to me now


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L_BUA9eFC4

[Holly Martins]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords.   What's extra embarassng is that the count looks to be headed towards Newsom winning by a larger margin than he did in 2018. 

[Hairy Lime]

I am SHOCKED, I tell you - that so many Republicans oppose an unconstitutional vaccine mandate.  Shocked.

Good thing, then,  that vaccine mandates are not unconstitutional.  And pretty much like literally hundreds of other public health measures throughout our nation's history.

The vaccine mandate proposed by Biden is unconstitutional.

It's not.   Which is why you never actually cite the constitutional basis, but just keep making the same unsupported assertion.

I already have. We covered this when the issue first came up in 2020.
The Federal Government cannot not impose mandates on the states.
New York v. United States (1992) would be a good precedent to learn.

It sure would! You should learn it. What mandate is Biden opposing on the states that you think NY v. US impacts? Because the answer is "none" since Biden is not mandating or incentives legislation by the states.

The mandate being worked on by OSHA.
Biden is trying to work around the Constitution.

Not even in the ball park for the NY v US case. You could drop a nuclear bomb on the NY case and OSHA regulating work place health and safety would not even get radiation burns. The right wing web site you are pulling the argument from is playing you for a gullible ass.

the Ball Park is the Constitution.
NY vs. US established Congress is limited by the Constitution in laws dealing with state mandates.
The President  gets his power from Congress and the Constitution. Neither of which grant him the power to establish state Mandates.
Ergo, as the cited case affirms, the Federal Government has no power to establish state mandates.

The case is about mandating official state actions. What official state action does the vaccine mandate require?

There no Mandate since Biden and his gang  cannot come up with one to pass Constitutional muster.
But, as the Constitution directs and has been endorsed by SCOTUS the Federal government cannot directly compel the States to pass certain laws or act in accord with the Federal government
In Murphy v. NCAA,Justice Alito, writing for the majority,explained  that the Federal government could neither compel a State to enact legislation or forbid it.

Well, you finally at least read the syllabus for the case. Congratulations. What official state action is the vaccine mandate requiring? The answer, to save you time, is none.

None yet.
If there is one it will be unconstitutional.

Yes, and if he attempts to dissolve Congress that will also be unconstitutional. But since he has not indicated he intends to do anything of the sort - either your hypothetical or mine - what in the Holy Name of God are you blathering about?

That any mandate, of a state or a private business by the Federal Government, is unconstitutional.

So, OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

For what?

And with that, Red raises the white flag.

No, you did.
For what reason can OSHA mandate goggles?
You know the answer, that

Ob, you did. So why did you ask?  You made the foolish blanket claim that any fed mandates were unconstitutional. 

And they are

So OSHA cannot mandate goggles or other protective equipment?

Or course it can. And you can unleash squirrels

So if Federal mandates are unconstitutional how can a federal agency mandate goggles?

Because goggles and Covid are not comparable.

So you admit that federal mandates are, or at least can be, constitutional.  We progress.

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

In the case of goggles OSHA requires employers to provide them in workplaces where there is a danger of eye injuries. The goggle standard was developed after the usual OSHA practice of research, hearings, studies, and reports. Moreover goggles have been proven to be the best way to prevent eye injuries in the workplace.If a worker provides a reason for not wearing them there are remedies available including moving the worker to another job in the company.

In the case of Covid it is an infectious disease not confined to a workplace. Depending on the vaccine the effectiveness is far from certain. Vaccinated people have still contracted Covid. Just getting the vaccine can cause side effects, some of which have been severe.
There are workplace remedies such as masks, distancing, and remote locations.
But the proposed mandate is for required vaccinations which leaves the employee with only one option to remain employed.  A second option might be weekly testing but many workers may not have symptoms and are not threats to fellow workers. OSHA is studying issuing a temporary rule requiring certain workers to get vaccinated.
But there are myriad reasons people resist vaccines, distrust of government  among some minorities and conservatives, people who previously had COVID-19 considering themselves immune, religious or medical issues.
Some of the reasons goggles and Covid are not comparable

A reasonable response. Thank you.

You are changing the perspective when you argue that COVID not being confined to the workplace makes mandating vaccines not comparable to mandating goggles. Eye injuries are not confined to the workplace either. But in both instances the work setting enhances the possibility of injury. OSHA can mandate reasonable rules to prevent or limit the risk.

You mention masks mandates, social distancing and the like,.apparently approving of OSHA being able to mandate those, and they are less intrusive options. But OSHA is not limited to the least intrusive option. They have the right to determine the most effective method to protect the health and safety of the workers. Given the science, it is certainly reasonable for OSHA to determine that vaccines are the best way to protect workers from getting COVID in the workplace.

To tie up another 🚻 (Sorry, started typing loose and that came up. Couldn't resist) loose end, the reason you can shift a worker to an area where goggles are not required has nothing to do with OSHA protecting their right to object. Employers can fire employees who refuse to use protective equipment. They just have.the option to move them if they want, because they have jobs where eye protection is not necessary. That such a position does not really exist with a communicable disease does not limit OSHA's ability to regulate work place safety rules.

Finally: because it pisses off kiid and he called me an asshole for doing it.

[facilitatorn]

Reports emerged out of the US last night that Joe Biden will announce a new working group bringing in Australia and the UK to share advanced technologies.

Washington website Politico reported the deal as a

If pinhead Scomo can keep a civil tongue in his head, we will clue you guys into wheels and levers that will advance you all the way to the height of the Bronze Age. It will be a new golden era for Oz.

[Holly Martins]

So you admit that federal mandates are, or at least can be, constitutional.  We progress.

That is your conclusion, not mine

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

In the case of goggles OSHA requires employers to provide them in workplaces where there is a danger of eye injuries. The goggle standard was developed after the usual OSHA practice of research, hearings, studies, and reports. Moreover goggles have been proven to be the best way to prevent eye injuries in the workplace.If a worker provides a reason for not wearing them there are remedies available including moving the worker to another job in the company.

In the case of Covid it is an infectious disease not confined to a workplace. Depending on the vaccine the effectiveness is far from certain. Vaccinated people have still contracted Covid. Just getting the vaccine can cause side effects, some of which have been severe.
There are workplace remedies such as masks, distancing, and remote locations.
But the proposed mandate is for required vaccinations which leaves the employee with only one option to remain employed.  A second option might be weekly testing but many workers may not have symptoms and are not threats to fellow workers. OSHA is studying issuing a temporary rule requiring certain workers to get vaccinated.
But there are myriad reasons people resist vaccines, distrust of government  among some minorities and conservatives, people who previously had COVID-19 considering themselves immune, religious or medical issues.
Some of the reasons goggles and Covid are not comparable.

The analogy works,  in terms of general safety.   Goggles don't stop all flying projectiles, and can cause contact dermatitis,  but their net effect is a much safer worker.  Vaccines prevent most serious cases of covid,  and reduce virus shedding,  so their net effect is good for workers.   

If you're going to argue some risk is inevitable in the workplace, then you can't really argue that the risk of using vaccines,  which is far less than the risk of not using vaccines,  is unacceptable.   

Didn't the SCt you so revere settle this back in the early twentieth century? 

[facilitatorn]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt.  Elder isn't real.  That he wants to run in '22 is no great positive for the Republican party.

Nah.

That YOU and yours know you can not win elections straight up so to remain in power you are attempting to discredit the idea of democracy.

I am happy Dems went all in and beat the living shit out of the Cali GOP.

Kind of messes with the framing that black folks will vote for someone just because they are black, huh?

Not a good candidate - as already noted

I agree.

But he was overwhelmingly the favorite of those who did not want Newsom to continue, with almost 50% of the those votes and more than the next 10 candidates combined.

And talk about embarrassing! Elder is the best your party could come up with!

[bambu.]

Reports emerged out of the US last night that Joe Biden will announce a new working group bringing in Australia and the UK to share advanced technologies.

Washington website Politico reported the deal as a

If pinhead Scomo can keep a civil tongue in his head, we will clue you guys into wheels and levers that will advance you all the way to the height of the Bronze Age. It will be a new golden era for Oz.

LOL

The arrangement will allow the countries to share information in areas including artificial intelligence, underwater systems and long range strike capabilities, the site reported.

It has also been confirmed that the US will help Australia identify the best way to acquire nuclear powered submarine capability.

[bambu.]

Nuclear powered subs, and hopefully nuke-armed.

[facilitatorn]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords.   What's extra embarassng is that the count looks to be headed towards Newsom winning by a larger margin than he did in 2018.

The trouble for republicans is that they all still live in trumps diaper and everyone knows it. They will keep losing support until they manage to climb their way out or they drown.

[bambu.]

Why Americans buy and need guns...so this won't happen to them...

2019

An elderly woman brutally bashed in her retirement village on Sydney's north-shore is a fiercely independent great-grandmother.

Patricia, 84, moved into an apartment at the village on Bobbin Head Road in North Turramurra just six weeks before she was attacked about midday on Saturday.
She had arrived home to the unknown man in her bedroom and was bashed before he ran from the scene. The great-grandmother was rushed to Sydney Adventist Hospital where she remains in a serious condition.

"As you can imagine this has been a very, very shocking and distressing event in our family," Patricia's daughter Caroline said in a press conference today.
"Mum is a very, very strong lady and we will help her get over this and get her home again, but this should never ever, ever happen to the most vulnerable or vulnerable in our community."
Patricia's husband died in April.

#####

Beaten senseless, ...her frail face bloodied, cut, bruised, ...used as a punching bag.
This could've been me!   or mrs bambu. Not our village that one, but they're all much the same.
If I could, I would rush out and buy guns. I'm not allowed to...but Americans are, and do.

[kiidcarter8]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

[kiidcarter8]

So you admit that federal mandates are, or at least can be, constitutional.  We progress.

That is your conclusion, not mine

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

In the case of goggles OSHA requires employers to provide them in workplaces where there is a danger of eye injuries. The goggle standard was developed after the usual OSHA practice of research, hearings, studies, and reports. Moreover goggles have been proven to be the best way to prevent eye injuries in the workplace.If a worker provides a reason for not wearing them there are remedies available including moving the worker to another job in the company.

In the case of Covid it is an infectious disease not confined to a workplace. Depending on the vaccine the effectiveness is far from certain. Vaccinated people have still contracted Covid. Just getting the vaccine can cause side effects, some of which have been severe.
There are workplace remedies such as masks, distancing, and remote locations.
But the proposed mandate is for required vaccinations which leaves the employee with only one option to remain employed.  A second option might be weekly testing but many workers may not have symptoms and are not threats to fellow workers. OSHA is studying issuing a temporary rule requiring certain workers to get vaccinated.
But there are myriad reasons people resist vaccines, distrust of government  among some minorities and conservatives, people who previously had COVID-19 considering themselves immune, religious or medical issues.
Some of the reasons goggles and Covid are not comparable.

The analogy works,  in terms of general safety.   Goggles don't stop all flying projectiles, and can cause contact dermatitis,  but their net effect is a much safer worker.  Vaccines prevent most serious cases of covid,  and reduce virus shedding,  so their net effect is good for workers.   

If you're going to argue some risk is inevitable in the workplace, then you can't really argue that the risk of using vaccines,  which is far less than the risk of not using vaccines,  is unacceptable.   

Didn't the SCt you so revere settle this back in the early twentieth century?

Mandatory no smoking policy should be next I suppose

[facilitatorn]

Which would be categorically the same as the mandatory no snorting cocaine policy should it be enacted.

Is that constitutional?