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1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[facilitatorn]

http://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/does-the-gop-really-want-to-do-this

Deep in the diaper. Not wanting at all to come up for air.

[bambu.]

Australia would also receive assistance in developing and maintaining a nuclear-defence infrastructure in what Washington DC insiders told the outlet was another move by western allies to combat China

[Holly Martins]

Probably there will be some form of workplace smoking ban (indoors), which would impact the dozen states that don't already have a ban.   Some states exempt certain businesses, like cigar bars,  tobacconists, and motels which can have smoking and nonsmoking rooms.   

If you're a lumberjack,  you're okay.   (what is it about online forums and Python references) 

[facilitatorn]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/15/occupy-wall-street-10-year-anniversary-lessons

Stronger than trumpism and more durable than the tea party

Americas best movement lives on.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama

[FlyingVProd]

Gavin Newsom won the recall, now we need to rebound from the corona crisis and we need to create jobs and we need to get people back to work, and better than before. It was bad before the crisis, and then it got worse, now it is extremely bad.

We need to stop the flow of illegal drugs, we need to help the homeless people, and we need to reach the children young and we need to raise good children so they do not end up in prison, or homeless. And we need to build more colleges and fewer prisons.

Here in Hollywood, the movie studios need to hire the local people, and we need to create jobs here in California. Paramount and others need to hire the local people to work at the studios. We also need to give scholarships to the local youth to go to film school and to work at a studio. And we have great film schools, and acting schools, etc, we need to hire the students as they come out of school. And Anaheim needs to have a new modern movie studio.

Also, the Antelope Valley can build new super sonic jets for passenger travel, like the Concorde only better.

We need to pass Biden's infrastructure plan and we need to get the money into the communities creating jobs. And we can have clean water for everyone, and we can have high speed trains, etc.

Here in California we have Sabrina Cervantes helping to save California and helping to create jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabrina_Cervantes

And Nevada needs doctors.

Salute,

Tony V.

[Hairy Lime]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

Considering he got a higher portion of the vote to stay in office then he got to be there in the first place, you may want to rethink the message.

[Hairy Lime]

So you admit that federal mandates are, or at least can be, constitutional.  We progress.

That is your conclusion, not mine

From the standpoint of OSHA workplace.safety and health regulations, why are COVID and eye injuries not comparable?

In the case of goggles OSHA requires employers to provide them in workplaces where there is a danger of eye injuries. The goggle standard was developed after the usual OSHA practice of research, hearings, studies, and reports. Moreover goggles have been proven to be the best way to prevent eye injuries in the workplace.If a worker provides a reason for not wearing them there are remedies available including moving the worker to another job in the company.

In the case of Covid it is an infectious disease not confined to a workplace. Depending on the vaccine the effectiveness is far from certain. Vaccinated people have still contracted Covid. Just getting the vaccine can cause side effects, some of which have been severe.
There are workplace remedies such as masks, distancing, and remote locations.
But the proposed mandate is for required vaccinations which leaves the employee with only one option to remain employed.  A second option might be weekly testing but many workers may not have symptoms and are not threats to fellow workers. OSHA is studying issuing a temporary rule requiring certain workers to get vaccinated.
But there are myriad reasons people resist vaccines, distrust of government  among some minorities and conservatives, people who previously had COVID-19 considering themselves immune, religious or medical issues.
Some of the reasons goggles and Covid are not comparable.

The analogy works,  in terms of general safety.   Goggles don't stop all flying projectiles, and can cause contact dermatitis,  but their net effect is a much safer worker.  Vaccines prevent most serious cases of covid,  and reduce virus shedding,  so their net effect is good for workers.   

If you're going to argue some risk is inevitable in the workplace, then you can't really argue that the risk of using vaccines,  which is far less than the risk of not using vaccines,  is unacceptable.   

Didn't the SCt you so revere settle this back in the early twentieth century?

Mandatory no smoking policy should be next I suppose

Uh... when were you last in a workplace?

[Holly Martins]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

Considering he got a higher portion of the vote to stay in office then he got to be there in the first place, you may want to rethink the message.

I pointed this out a couple pages back.   Kid doesn't read for meaning.

[Hairy Lime]

Gavin Newsom won the recall, now we need to rebound from the corona crisis and we need to create jobs and we need to get people back to work, and better than before. It was bad before the crisis, and then it got worse, now it is extremely bad.

We need to stop the flow of illegal drugs, we need to help the homeless people, and we need to reach the children young and we need to raise good children so they do not end up in prison, or homeless. And we need to build more colleges and fewer prisons.

Here in Hollywood, the movie studios need to hire the local people, and we need to create jobs here in California. Paramount and others need to hire the local people to work at the studios. We also need to give scholarships to the local youth to go to film school and to work at a studio. And we have great film schools, and acting schools, etc, we need to hire the students as they come out of school. And Anaheim needs to have a new modern movie studio.

Also, the Antelope Valley can build new super sonic jets for passenger travel, like the Concorde only better.

We need to pass Biden's infrastructure plan and we need to get the money into the communities creating jobs. And we can have clean water for everyone, and we can have high speed trains, etc.

Here in California we have Sabrina Cervantes helping to save California and helping to create jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabrina_Cervantes

And Nevada needs doctors.

Salute,

Tony V.

Spain will solve all our problems! Let Spain do it!

[Holly Martins]

Uh... when were you last in a workplace?
[/quote]

I presume he means a federal ban.   Which would have little impact except in a handful of states,  mostly Southern.  And even there,  municipalities have largely banned for indoor workers.

[FlyingVProd]

Bambu, I am sure the USA will help Australia with defense, and with missile defense. The USA and Israel have come a long way with missile defense. We are learning about lasers, and we have laser eye surgery now that resulted from the research from defense. And there is the Iron Dome protecting Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

We can make sure that Australia has good defense.

On the issue of China, like I said, I had a roommate who was the daughter of a general in China, she learned English and she came to live in Malibu. The Chinese love Malibu. We need for wise and peaceful people to keep the peace and to help relations to evolve and grow in good ways with China. We need to work together with China to cure Cancer, etc, and we need to improve relations and we need to look for ways that we can work together with China as a team. China is also a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. China can help in Afghanistan if they want, etc, the Chinese could buy apples from orchards in Afghanistan. China is a great destination for world goods. We need to have peace with China and we need to work together as a team with them on world issues.

And Australia needs to expand trade with Latin America, the Australians need to buy coffee from Colombia, and tequila from Mexico and chili peppers from Mexico, and Australia needs to buy other products from Latin America. World trade is good for everyone.

Salute,

Tony V.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.emptywheel.net/2021/09/15/networks-of-insurrection-trump-is-literally-calling-people-to-dc-in-a-show-of-force/

[REDSTATEWARD]

You are changing the perspective when you argue that COVID not being confined to the workplace makes mandating vaccines not comparable to mandating goggles. Eye injuries are not confined to the workplace either. But in both instances the work setting enhances the possibility of injury. OSHA can mandate reasonable rules to prevent or limit the risk.

You mention masks mandates, social distancing and the like,.apparently approving of OSHA being able to mandate those, and they are less intrusive options. But OSHA is not limited to the least intrusive option. They have the right to determine the most effective method to protect the health and safety of the workers. Given the science, it is certainly reasonable for OSHA to determine that vaccines are the best way to protect workers from getting COVID in the workplace.

Which Science? The Science the government relied on to say Vaccinated people no longer needed to wear masks? The Science that said vaccinations would crush Covid? Now we are told vaccinated people can still get Covid and can be infectious.

the reason you can shift a worker to an area where goggles are not required has nothing to do with OSHA protecting their right to object. Employers can fire employees who refuse to use protective equipment. They just have.the option to move them if they want, because they have jobs where eye protection is not necessary. That such a position does not really exist with a communicable disease does not limit OSHA's ability to regulate work place safety rules.

Except that a Vaxx Mandate bypasses the employer,  the employee, and the State they work in.
Where does the Executive Branch  get the power to override personal choice to get vaccinated or not?
It is not in the Constitution nor has it been legislated by
Congress.

[josh]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

i think a message was sent, Kid.

I just don't think it was either the message or the recipient that you had in mind.

$24 million in Newsom's campaign account already for the next election. Democratic party pumped up and ready to go. And not a competent Republican candidate in sight.