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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[LarryBnDC]

Larry

I'm left of center and support many of the same things you do. But I'm also a pragmatist. I would like to see them get done and not die because they lacked enough popular support to carry them through. I suggested a road map for Biden's first two years to help him in a critical '22 election. As posted, get some popular wins and monetize them for '22 votes.

Yelling GO BIG and scaring the 80% of voters who are not aligned with the Dems fringe far left threatens a lot of progress that you want. I could argue you are a closet Repub conservative sand-bagging Biden's agenda.

But I just think you're wrong.

Its kind of like DEFUND THE POLICE^¹⁰ pre 2020 election

It loses a lot of votes and House seats.

And I fear a resurgent Republican party can re-emerge and strangle our democracy.

Biden looked impotent trying to cut deals with Manchin and the Progs.

It was a terrible look for the guy supposedly leading the world's greatest power.

Biden should GO SMART and monetize it into votes ASAP.

But his window is narrowing.

And I'm sorry you felt insulted.

But I disagreed with you and told you why.

As I have countless times in meetings pushing an idea I like or arguing against one I think is lacking.

And race had nothing to do with it.

so stop playing the fucking race card.

Race has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do not play the race card when I say things said are racist.

For you to tell me I do not hear what I hear filtered through years of my life experience is fucking racist.

I keep telling you I was/am ecstatic with what Biden tried.

He went there with Covid relief with not one Republican vote.

He pushed huge vaccine efforts against severe opposition to the efforts to save lives.

You guys crushed me when I said the gop response to the virus was so terrible as to be deliberate once it became clear who was taking the brunt. How many dead in May 2020 when MAGA screamed Liberate Michigan?

 Now 750,000 dead and 150,000 dead since June were unvaxxed.
 
Remember the video of German airman walking off the zeppelin to shed weight?

No Democrat ran on Defund The Police but it was the CRT of 2020; a GOP weapon to motivate the suburban moderates who reliably respond to racist fear mongering.

In 2018 the border and caravans. 2020 the projection of BLM rioters, looters and arsonists leav8ng the inner cities without police to keep them there and away from HERE while this year their children are being taught to hate themselves because they learn American History.

That cohort is gonna split or go majority GOP as they have for 50 damn years.

Even white women vote GOP


I do not know where you get the 80% from. But evidently you are chasing the mythical white working class voter who have not been reliably democratic since LBJ passed civil rights.

Black women activists and voters beat Trump in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.

GOP is rolling out Law after law in state after state to make sure that will not happen again  and if it does they are putting levers in place to overturn results they do not like.

Meanwhile, in the Senate the GOP will not even allow debate on voting protection because Manchin and Sinema insist on holding on to the filibuster.

The voting bloc the Democrats rely on to win is bring ignored except by the Progressives you vilify.

You lump the Squad and Manchin and Sinema as giving Biden a hard time when it is Jayapal holding the line against Gottheimer who broke the tandem bill agreement (and went against Pelosi) and wanted to vote on the BIF immediately after it passed the Senate.

When Biden stood by the tandem track agreement you freaked out about how had gone back on his word with the party that for the most part swear he is not legitimate.

Larry I mean this with no malice, but I hope you are seeing a shrink.

I'm not going to follow you down your meandering rabbit hole of non-sequiters and rebut and comment on each one just to end up with three more ramblings responses that take me further down your maze of crazy. I'm sorry you are as troubled as you are.

And I'm sorry you see race in all your transactions with other people. I really am. But there is little I can do about it. I can only tell you honestly I treat you and respond to you exactly the same as I would anyone else here. Your race is irrelevant to me. Your words are not.

Just understand that if people disagree with you maybe they just disagree with you.

Oh, no, you don't think that Larry can possibly understand that, do you?

It seem Larry rejected my thesis, but I remain an optimist.

Your thesis does not hold up under even cursory scrutiny.

You should demand your tuition back from whoever you got a degree in political science.

Larry

The thesis I was referring to was your myopic vision and seeing racism where it isn't.

You might want to check your lenses.

Or perhaps your not seeing it where it is. I suspect the foot is most likely to know if the shoe fits.

Or Larry's sees things that are not there.

He has yet shown any examples of racism, as it regards our disagreement, other than he knows it when he "hears" it.

Which is a charge that is impossible to defend.

I hear and read things as well, that could be interpreted in certain ways, but I try to be careful not to point a finger and charge bias is the basis behind it. I can believe that a difference of opinion is there.

I told you exactly.

That you will not accept it is a measure of your racism and privilege.

[bankshot1]

Larry what you do is play the race card over and over again in our disagreements over the years.

Racism was not and is not a factor in my disagreeing with you.

I thought you were wrong and I told you why.

Was racism a factor when we agreed on the other 90% of issues, or was I clear-eyed and rational?

Perhaps you should examine your own prejudices before blaming others for them.

or don't.

beyond that, best of luck

[Hairy Lime]

Larry

I'm left of center and support many of the same things you do. But I'm also a pragmatist. I would like to see them get done and not die because they lacked enough popular support to carry them through. I suggested a road map for Biden's first two years to help him in a critical '22 election. As posted, get some popular wins and monetize them for '22 votes.

Yelling GO BIG and scaring the 80% of voters who are not aligned with the Dems fringe far left threatens a lot of progress that you want. I could argue you are a closet Repub conservative sand-bagging Biden's agenda.

But I just think you're wrong.

Its kind of like DEFUND THE POLICE^¹⁰ pre 2020 election

It loses a lot of votes and House seats.

And I fear a resurgent Republican party can re-emerge and strangle our democracy.

Biden looked impotent trying to cut deals with Manchin and the Progs.

It was a terrible look for the guy supposedly leading the world's greatest power.

Biden should GO SMART and monetize it into votes ASAP.

But his window is narrowing.

And I'm sorry you felt insulted.

But I disagreed with you and told you why.

As I have countless times in meetings pushing an idea I like or arguing against one I think is lacking.

And race had nothing to do with it.

so stop playing the fucking race card.

Race has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do not play the race card when I say things said are racist.

For you to tell me I do not hear what I hear filtered through years of my life experience is fucking racist.

I keep telling you I was/am ecstatic with what Biden tried.

He went there with Covid relief with not one Republican vote.

He pushed huge vaccine efforts against severe opposition to the efforts to save lives.

You guys crushed me when I said the gop response to the virus was so terrible as to be deliberate once it became clear who was taking the brunt. How many dead in May 2020 when MAGA screamed Liberate Michigan?

 Now 750,000 dead and 150,000 dead since June were unvaxxed.
 
Remember the video of German airman walking off the zeppelin to shed weight?

No Democrat ran on Defund The Police but it was the CRT of 2020; a GOP weapon to motivate the suburban moderates who reliably respond to racist fear mongering.

In 2018 the border and caravans. 2020 the projection of BLM rioters, looters and arsonists leav8ng the inner cities without police to keep them there and away from HERE while this year their children are being taught to hate themselves because they learn American History.

That cohort is gonna split or go majority GOP as they have for 50 damn years.

Even white women vote GOP


I do not know where you get the 80% from. But evidently you are chasing the mythical white working class voter who have not been reliably democratic since LBJ passed civil rights.

Black women activists and voters beat Trump in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.

GOP is rolling out Law after law in state after state to make sure that will not happen again  and if it does they are putting levers in place to overturn results they do not like.

Meanwhile, in the Senate the GOP will not even allow debate on voting protection because Manchin and Sinema insist on holding on to the filibuster.

The voting bloc the Democrats rely on to win is bring ignored except by the Progressives you vilify.

You lump the Squad and Manchin and Sinema as giving Biden a hard time when it is Jayapal holding the line against Gottheimer who broke the tandem bill agreement (and went against Pelosi) and wanted to vote on the BIF immediately after it passed the Senate.

When Biden stood by the tandem track agreement you freaked out about how had gone back on his word with the party that for the most part swear he is not legitimate.

Larry I mean this with no malice, but I hope you are seeing a shrink.

I'm not going to follow you down your meandering rabbit hole of non-sequiters and rebut and comment on each one just to end up with three more ramblings responses that take me further down your maze of crazy. I'm sorry you are as troubled as you are.

And I'm sorry you see race in all your transactions with other people. I really am. But there is little I can do about it. I can only tell you honestly I treat you and respond to you exactly the same as I would anyone else here. Your race is irrelevant to me. Your words are not.

Just understand that if people disagree with you maybe they just disagree with you.

Oh, no, you don't think that Larry can possibly understand that, do you?

It seem Larry rejected my thesis, but I remain an optimist.

Your thesis does not hold up under even cursory scrutiny.

You should demand your tuition back from whoever you got a degree in political science.

Larry

The thesis I was referring to was your myopic vision and seeing racism where it isn't.

You might want to check your lenses.

Or perhaps your not seeing it where it is. I suspect the foot is most likely to know if the shoe fits.

Or Larry's sees things that are not there.

He has yet shown any examples of racism, as it regards our disagreement, other than he knows it when he "hears" it.

Which is a charge that is impossible to defend.

I hear and read things as well, that could be interpreted in certain ways, but I try to be careful not to point a finger and charge bias is the basis behind it. I can believe that a difference of opinion is there.

I get the defensiveness. But maybe you should listen instead.

[bankshot1]

Larry

I'm left of center and support many of the same things you do. But I'm also a pragmatist. I would like to see them get done and not die because they lacked enough popular support to carry them through. I suggested a road map for Biden's first two years to help him in a critical '22 election. As posted, get some popular wins and monetize them for '22 votes.

Yelling GO BIG and scaring the 80% of voters who are not aligned with the Dems fringe far left threatens a lot of progress that you want. I could argue you are a closet Repub conservative sand-bagging Biden's agenda.

But I just think you're wrong.

Its kind of like DEFUND THE POLICE^¹⁰ pre 2020 election

It loses a lot of votes and House seats.

And I fear a resurgent Republican party can re-emerge and strangle our democracy.

Biden looked impotent trying to cut deals with Manchin and the Progs.

It was a terrible look for the guy supposedly leading the world's greatest power.

Biden should GO SMART and monetize it into votes ASAP.

But his window is narrowing.

And I'm sorry you felt insulted.

But I disagreed with you and told you why.

As I have countless times in meetings pushing an idea I like or arguing against one I think is lacking.

And race had nothing to do with it.

so stop playing the fucking race card.

Race has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do not play the race card when I say things said are racist.

For you to tell me I do not hear what I hear filtered through years of my life experience is fucking racist.

I keep telling you I was/am ecstatic with what Biden tried.

He went there with Covid relief with not one Republican vote.

He pushed huge vaccine efforts against severe opposition to the efforts to save lives.

You guys crushed me when I said the gop response to the virus was so terrible as to be deliberate once it became clear who was taking the brunt. How many dead in May 2020 when MAGA screamed Liberate Michigan?

 Now 750,000 dead and 150,000 dead since June were unvaxxed.
 
Remember the video of German airman walking off the zeppelin to shed weight?

No Democrat ran on Defund The Police but it was the CRT of 2020; a GOP weapon to motivate the suburban moderates who reliably respond to racist fear mongering.

In 2018 the border and caravans. 2020 the projection of BLM rioters, looters and arsonists leav8ng the inner cities without police to keep them there and away from HERE while this year their children are being taught to hate themselves because they learn American History.

That cohort is gonna split or go majority GOP as they have for 50 damn years.

Even white women vote GOP


I do not know where you get the 80% from. But evidently you are chasing the mythical white working class voter who have not been reliably democratic since LBJ passed civil rights.

Black women activists and voters beat Trump in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.

GOP is rolling out Law after law in state after state to make sure that will not happen again  and if it does they are putting levers in place to overturn results they do not like.

Meanwhile, in the Senate the GOP will not even allow debate on voting protection because Manchin and Sinema insist on holding on to the filibuster.

The voting bloc the Democrats rely on to win is bring ignored except by the Progressives you vilify.

You lump the Squad and Manchin and Sinema as giving Biden a hard time when it is Jayapal holding the line against Gottheimer who broke the tandem bill agreement (and went against Pelosi) and wanted to vote on the BIF immediately after it passed the Senate.

When Biden stood by the tandem track agreement you freaked out about how had gone back on his word with the party that for the most part swear he is not legitimate.

Larry I mean this with no malice, but I hope you are seeing a shrink.

I'm not going to follow you down your meandering rabbit hole of non-sequiters and rebut and comment on each one just to end up with three more ramblings responses that take me further down your maze of crazy. I'm sorry you are as troubled as you are.

And I'm sorry you see race in all your transactions with other people. I really am. But there is little I can do about it. I can only tell you honestly I treat you and respond to you exactly the same as I would anyone else here. Your race is irrelevant to me. Your words are not.

Just understand that if people disagree with you maybe they just disagree with you.

Oh, no, you don't think that Larry can possibly understand that, do you?

It seem Larry rejected my thesis, but I remain an optimist.

Your thesis does not hold up under even cursory scrutiny.

You should demand your tuition back from whoever you got a degree in political science.

Larry

The thesis I was referring to was your myopic vision and seeing racism where it isn't.

You might want to check your lenses.

Or perhaps your not seeing it where it is. I suspect the foot is most likely to know if the shoe fits.

Or Larry's sees things that are not there.

He has yet shown any examples of racism, as it regards our disagreement, other than he knows it when he "hears" it.

Which is a charge that is impossible to defend.

I hear and read things as well, that could be interpreted in certain ways, but I try to be careful not to point a finger and charge bias is the basis behind it. I can believe that a difference of opinion is there.

I get the defensiveness. But maybe you should listen instead.

I do listen and respond and Larry has yet to show me examples of my racism.

I don't accept the premise that disagreeing with a black man is racist.

Anymore than I believe that disagreeing with me is rooted in anti-Semitism.

[josh]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

[bankshot1]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

If Larry sees racism, rather than a reasoned difference of opinion, when (I) some people disagree with him, I agree minds will not be changed. I can't change that deeply ingrained POV. 

And if others here believe they can't disagree with someone else for fear of charges of racism or any other kind of bias, that is a pretty sad commentary.

And one I do not subscribe to.

[Oilcan]

I do not believe disagreeing with a black person makes a white person racist but I do think that defining the scope of racism in our country to a black person is like a cis male defining the experience of menstruation or childbirth to a woman.  Why is it so hard to just STFU and listen to someone who has a direct experience of something you do not?

(and why is Laurence Olivier playing a Jew?  a related question, but not really a serious one, so ignore...)

[josh]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

If Larry sees racism, rather than a reasoned difference of opinion, when (I) some people disagree with him, I agree minds will not be changed. I can't change that deeply ingrained POV. 

And if others here believe they can't disagree with someone else for fear of charges of racism or any other kind of bias, that is a pretty sad commentary.

And one I do not subscribe to.

And your inability to concede that you might be in error is part of the problem, Banks.

[FlyingVProd]

Today is my Birthday, I am 54, time flies so fast. But, the time was not wasted, I spent my time learning and growing and experiencing. As I grow older I am growing wiser. And the Bible says I can sit with the elders at the gate.

Salute,

Tony V.

[bankshot1]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

If Larry sees racism, rather than a reasoned difference of opinion, when (I) some people disagree with him, I agree minds will not be changed. I can't change that deeply ingrained POV. 

And if others here believe they can't disagree with someone else for fear of charges of racism or any other kind of bias, that is a pretty sad commentary.

And one I do not subscribe to.

And your inability to concede that you might be in error is part of the problem, Banks.

That coming from you is beyond funny.

I could be wrong on several things, but my views on race and equality and racism is not one of them.

I am comfortable on that score and as a result feel grounded in disagreeing or agreeing, with anyone,  as it fits.

But I can also understand that some might feel uncomfortable arguing with Larry.

But I don't, its the same with Red, kid, hammy or you.

If I disagree with you I tell you why.

Its not that complicated.

But I can't change another's ingrained experience and how they process a difference of opinion.

[josh]

Today is my Birthday, I am 54, time flies so fast. But, the time was not wasted, I spent my time learning and growing and experiencing. As I grow older I am growing wiser. And the Bible says I can sit with the elders at the gate.

Salute,

Tony V.

Happy birthday, Tony.

I hope there is truth in what the Bible tells you.

[josh]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

If Larry sees racism, rather than a reasoned difference of opinion, when (I) some people disagree with him, I agree minds will not be changed. I can't change that deeply ingrained POV. 

And if others here believe they can't disagree with someone else for fear of charges of racism or any other kind of bias, that is a pretty sad commentary.

And one I do not subscribe to.

And your inability to concede that you might be in error is part of the problem, Banks.

That coming from you is beyond funny.

I could be wrong on several things, but my views on race and equality and racism is not one of them.

Irony = Bankshot.

[bankshot1]

Today is my Birthday, I am 54, time flies so fast. But, the time was not wasted, I spent my time learning and growing and experiencing. As I grow older I am growing wiser. And the Bible says I can sit with the elders at the gate.

Salute,

Tony V.

Happy birthday Tony.

As for sitting with the elders, screw that, 54 is still young.

Have a great birthday.

[LarryBnDC]

Larry what you do is play the race card over and over again in our disagreements over the years.

Racism was not and is not a factor in my disagreeing with you.

I thought you were wrong and I told you why.

Was racism a factor when we agreed on the other 90% of issues, or was I clear-eyed and rational?

Perhaps you should examine your own prejudices before blaming others for them.

or don't.

beyond that, best of luck

Over the years you have said racist shit again and again and I called you on it and you say I am playing the race card.

Saying playing the race card over and over is racist as fuck.

That you will not acknowledge what I tell you and in fact tell me I need psychiatric help is racist as fuck.

[bankshot1]

That you have not seen something does not mean it has not been shown.

Nor is Larry's insistence that something is racist proof that it is.

Nor is endless wrangling about it going to change your minds.

If Larry sees racism, rather than a reasoned difference of opinion, when (I) some people disagree with him, I agree minds will not be changed. I can't change that deeply ingrained POV. 

And if others here believe they can't disagree with someone else for fear of charges of racism or any other kind of bias, that is a pretty sad commentary.

And one I do not subscribe to.

And your inability to concede that you might be in error is part of the problem, Banks.

That coming from you is beyond funny.

I could be wrong on several things, but my views on race and equality and racism is not one of them.

Irony = Bankshot.

cowardsplain


LMAO