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Some

4 (33.3%)

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Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hamilton Samuels]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

No. People unwittingly say racist things all the time, thoughtlessly or because of cultural upbringing. There is a difference between a racist idea and a racist person. Ham is a racist person. And I am happy to be considered intolerant of racism by him.

Please indicate your personal knowledge of me, detail our personal relationship as it has been throughout the many years that you have personally known me; provide an historical record of my professional career and how it has been conducted in a racist manner, and show how my social connections indicate solid evidence of your deeply held conviction that I am a "racist person".


Absent any of that, you can not fairly judge me as such, anymore than I can judge you as to how good a father, husband, or lawyer you are or have ever been.


 

[Hamilton Samuels]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

No. People unwittingly say racist things all the time, thoughtlessly or because of cultural upbringing. There is a difference between a racist idea and a racist person. Ham is a racist person. And I am happy to be considered intolerant of racism by him.

So the recent case from the View with Whoopie,  you would not conclude from her statement, which she has retracted, that she is a racist person, but she did indeed express poorly a statement about racism.

I think her mistake was demonstrating her lack of knowledge and understanding about the Holocaust, and the stated and well documented intent of its perpetrators.

That is forgivable, but not acceptable, as such an ill-informed opinion expressed by someone of her status can enable Holocaust deniers.

[josh]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

No. People unwittingly say racist things all the time, thoughtlessly or because of cultural upbringing. There is a difference between a racist idea and a racist person. Ham is a racist person. And I am happy to be considered intolerant of racism by him.

So the recent case from the View with Whoopie,  you would not conclude from her statement, which she has retracted, that she is a racist person, but she did indeed express poorly a statement about racism.

I think she erred.

Others have written about this quite adroitly, so briefly I will just say that her statement was... ham-handed, but the notion of white vs. white-passing certainly plays a role in this. As I think I have observed here, previously, I perceive myself to be "provisionally white," not white.

And the debate over race vs. religion vs. ethnic vs. culture is hardly new to Jews in America (or elsewhere).

[FlyingVProd]

30% of our people in California are from foreign nations, many do not speak English, many are illegal, and they are trapped in poverty, they live with a whole family in a one bedroom apartment and the women get a boyfriend and move out and get pregnant at 16 years old. We need to do better.

We need to make our immigrants legal, first of all, like Reagan did, so that they can join labor unions and so that they can call the police in the case of an emergency.

We need to bring our immigrants inside the law, and let them know that they are protected by the law, etc. And all men are created equal. They can learn English, then they can join a union, and they can earn the same good union wages as anyone else.

And we have great schools in California so far as colleges, if we can get the children to grow up to go to college. And I think that we should at least give the people free community college. I also support free college for foster children and for children without fathers.

We need to make our people LEGAL, and we need to teach them English, and we need to open the USA up as the land of opportunity for all people.

Being poor and illegal in the USA would be like going to Disneyland and not being able to enjoy the rides. The USA is a great, fun place which is full of opportunities, and we need to make sure that our immigrants have the same chance to live the American Dream as anyone else.

Salute,

Tony V.

[josh]

I don't need to know that a person performs in a racist manner in all aspects of their lives to know that they perform in a racist manner in one aspect of their lives.

"Sure, he killed a bunch of people, but he was always nice at work," is not a compelling argument. It doesn't work any better wrt racism.

[Oilcan]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/politics/arizona-bill-reject-election-results-effectively-blocked/index.html

Good news out of Arizona.

Apparently Trump koolaid, in spite of its strong brewing formula, does wear off after a while.  And I see Mikey's koolaid has also been insufficient...

https://apnews.com/article/mike-pence-donald-trump-election-2020-84ff467d9ff5bfaad084e274f69ac521

[facilitatorn]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/2/4/2078445/-What-happens-when-a-white-law-student-at-Ole-Miss-takes-a-CRT-class-She-learns-something-about-race

[Hairy Lime]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

No. People unwittingly say racist things all the time, thoughtlessly or because of cultural upbringing. There is a difference between a racist idea and a racist person. Ham is a racist person. And I am happy to be considered intolerant of racism by him.

So the recent case from the View with Whoopie,  you would not conclude from her statement, which she has retracted, that she is a racist person, but she did indeed express poorly a statement about racism.

I am not as up on the issue.as some and have no opinion.

[FlyingVProd]

Today as we remember Rosa Parks I am reminded of when my History professor brought Rosa Parks to our community college to speak. We learned that Rosa was only human, and the reason why she did not want to change seats on the bus was because she was tired. She was not trying to be a civil rights hero, she was not trying to change the world, Rosa was just tired and she did not feel like changing seats. We inflate our heroes to super human proportions, but Rosa was just tired and that was why she did not want to change seats.

Salute,

Tony V.

[Oilcan]

A sincere question for Kid, RedStateWard, and Hamilton:

Have you ever made a statement or posted a question here that in retrospect you realized was racist?

Your question reflects the intolerance and bigotry of the left wing of the D-Party.

Racism implies intent.

I regret some things I have said, but none involved reflecting upon my remarks as racist...

(a) Thank you for your direct answer to my question.

(b) You once again illustrate a complete lack of comprehension of your ironic path.

(c) No, racism does not imply intent and perhaps it is your belief that it does that leads you to some of your positions.

This does a reasonable job of summarizing that issue and a better job than I think I would have done.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/psysociety/e2809cbut-i-didne28099t-mean-ite2809d-why-ite28099s-so-hard-to-prioritize-impacts-over-intents/

This taps into a longstanding truth about intentional v accidental harm.  If I bump into you and slosh coffee on your shirt, I am still paying the dry cleaner and looking into snap on lids for my future coffee walks, no matter how well-intentioned I was.

"Get Out" has some vivid scenes on unintended racism. 

[Holly Martins]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

Only in the eyes of the:

a) one who needs to take offense

b) one who wants to take offense

c) one who wishes to divert the conversation and avoid addressing any aspect of it

d) "progressive wing" of the Democratic Party

e) wants to shut down an opinion with which they disagree

f) all of the above

Whatever, "Buckwheat."

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/politics/arizona-bill-reject-election-results-effectively-blocked/index.html

Good news out of Arizona.

Apparently Trump koolaid, in spite of its strong brewing formula, does wear off after a while.  And I see Mikey's koolaid has also been insufficient...

https://apnews.com/article/mike-pence-donald-trump-election-2020-84ff467d9ff5bfaad084e274f69ac521

I was just about to post that bit from a different paper.

I am so glad he finally came out and said it.

[Holly Martins]

A sincere question for Kid, RedStateWard, and Hamilton:

Have you ever made a statement or posted a question here that in retrospect you realized was racist?

Your question reflects the intolerance and bigotry of the left wing of the D-Party.

Racism implies intent.

I regret some things I have said, but none involved reflecting upon my remarks as racist...

(a) Thank you for your direct answer to my question.

(b) You once again illustrate a complete lack of comprehension of your ironic path.

(c) No, racism does not imply intent and perhaps it is your belief that it does that leads you to some of your positions.

This does a reasonable job of summarizing that issue and a better job than I think I would have done.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/psysociety/e2809cbut-i-didne28099t-mean-ite2809d-why-ite28099s-so-hard-to-prioritize-impacts-over-intents/

This taps into a longstanding truth about intentional v accidental harm.  If I bump into you and slosh coffee on your shirt, I am still paying the dry cleaner and looking into snap on lids for my future coffee walks, no matter how well-intentioned I was.

"Get Out" has some vivid scenes on unintended racism.

No, no, you don't apologize for the coffee slosh!  You write a longish screed about how you are not a coffee spillist and how anyone judging you as a spillist is a kneejerk liberal who is trying to tar you with a false narrative!

[Hairy Lime]

This who is a racist today arguing is getting nowhere.


For anyone who cares to reply:
Q)  Does making a comment or assertion that someone infers to be "racist"
make the speaker "a racist" ?

No. People unwittingly say racist things all the time, thoughtlessly or because of cultural upbringing. There is a difference between a racist idea and a racist person. Ham is a racist person. And I am happy to be considered intolerant of racism by him.

Please indicate your personal knowledge of me, detail our personal relationship as it has been throughout the many years that you have personally known me; provide an historical record of my professional career and how it has been conducted in a racist manner, and show how my social connections indicate solid evidence of your deeply held conviction that I am a "racist

Your racism is apparent by the repeated racist contents of your posts. I do not need to drink a whole gallon of milk to know it is spoiled.

[Holly Martins]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/politics/arizona-bill-reject-election-results-effectively-blocked/index.html

Good news out of Arizona.

Apparently Trump koolaid, in spite of its strong brewing formula, does wear off after a while.  And I see Mikey's koolaid has also been insufficient...

https://apnews.com/article/mike-pence-donald-trump-election-2020-84ff467d9ff5bfaad084e274f69ac521

I was just about to post that bit from a different paper.

I am so glad he finally came out and said it.

I love the mental image of the roomful of Federalist Society cons falling deathly silent as Mikey declares Trump to be wrong! 

Milk was curdled, live!