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Should the US be concerned about an invasion of Ukraine by Russia?

Very
- 6 (50%)
Some
- 4 (33.3%)
Not sure
- 0 (0%)
Not really
- 1 (8.3%)
Not in the slightest
- 1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM


Pages: 1 ... 1978 1979 [1980] 1981 1982 ... 2954

Author Topic: Biden Administration  (Read 792923 times)

Yankguy1

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29685 on: July 20, 2022, 02:31:12 PM »

Abortion was a constitutionally protected right affirmed by SCOTUS countless times.
States acted before the reversal of the ruling.
Alito's "foreshadowing" is dicta and means nothing legally.
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Espnthree

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29686 on: July 20, 2022, 02:52:23 PM »

Abortion was a constitutionally protected right affirmed by SCOTUS countless times.
States acted before the reversal of the ruling.
Alito's "foreshadowing" is dicta and means nothing legally.
Roe was upheld but watered down by Casey and overturned by Dobbs
SCOTUS now turns the fate of abortion over to the states as prescribed by the Constitution.
State action up until now was centered on restricting elements of Roe but were bound by the Roe ruling that Abortion was  a protected right .
Dobbs changed that.
Each state now can choose what to do.
Alito s opinion is dicta? I think you misuse the word.
It is the majority opinion of the court laying out its reasoning and giving guidelines on how to proceed in carrying out the decision, and more.
It also advises other courts of the relationship between Dobbs and preceding and future cases involving unenumerated rights so it legally carries a lot of meaning.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29687 on: July 20, 2022, 02:54:30 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 03:02:29 PM by Yankguy1 »
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"I like your smile, and your fingertips
I like the way that you move your hips
I like the cool way you look at me
Everything about you is bringing me misery..."--Bob Dylan

Holly Martins

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29688 on: July 20, 2022, 03:16:09 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   

Makes sense.  And it's not really Alito's court, so to me (layman) it would seem that he can't really foreshadow anything.  Obiter dictum, right?
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facilitatorn

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29689 on: July 20, 2022, 03:20:45 PM »

When ward tries to shiv you he does not want you running away or kicking his ass so he says the opposite.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29690 on: July 20, 2022, 03:24:55 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   

Makes sense.  And it's not really Alito's court, so to me (layman) it would seem that he can't really foreshadow anything.  Obiter dictum, right?

yeah

Alright.

Well done, guys.
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Espnthree

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29691 on: July 20, 2022, 03:26:44 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   
Pretty narrow interpretation since Dobbs now establishes a clear road map, if you will, to examine future cases involving unenumerated rights.

And Dobbs has shut the door on the so-called LIVING CONSTITUTION

Specifically the majority decision says The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion. Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.
In other words the Constitution does not evolve without approval of the governed.

BTW foreshadowing was my word choice, not that of Alito.
I will stick with that.
Especially since other Justices expanded on the statement.

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Espnthree

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29692 on: July 20, 2022, 03:31:56 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   

Makes sense.  And it's not really Alito's court, so to me (layman) it would seem that he can't really foreshadow anything.
He wrote the majority opinion which defines the decision and how it applies to lower courts.
He was selected to write for the COURT by Clarence Thomas who is the Senior Justice on the majority given the Chief Justice was in the minority.
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29693 on: July 20, 2022, 03:46:00 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   
Pretty narrow interpretation since Dobbs now establishes a clear road map, if you will, to examine future cases involving unenumerated rights.
Which is precisely the point everyone else here has been making. Gay marriage is not an enumerated right. Access to birth control is not an enumerated right. Interracial marriage is not an enumerated right. Gay sex is not an enumerated right. None of those is any more deeply rooted in our history or.tradition than Roe was. There is now a."clear road map" to eliminate or limit those rights, and the Democrats are moving to prevent that from happening.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29694 on: July 20, 2022, 03:47:39 PM »

...while allowing the rest of the nation to go to shit.
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Holly Martins

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29695 on: July 20, 2022, 03:57:08 PM »

Erm, if you're following the chat, it points towards a Supreme disregard of the 9th amendment that would pave  a ten lane freeway to Shit Central.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29696 on: July 20, 2022, 04:03:50 PM »

...while allowing the rest of the nation to go to shit.

It was nice to discuss this stuff. Alas, my return to the sidelines has been hastened.
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"I like your smile, and your fingertips
I like the way that you move your hips
I like the cool way you look at me
Everything about you is bringing me misery..."--Bob Dylan

Holly Martins

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29697 on: July 20, 2022, 04:08:40 PM »

Which is precisely the point everyone else here has been making. Gay marriage is not an enumerated right. Access to birth control is not an enumerated right. Interracial marriage is not an enumerated right. Gay sex is not an enumerated right. None of those is any more deeply rooted in our history or.tradition than Roe was. There is now a."clear road map" to eliminate or limit those rights, and the Democrats are moving to prevent that from happening.
So, if I'm following this, states could easily move to limit rights which the SCOTUS has essentially ruled don't exist and never had a constitutional basis to exist.  This, to me, creates what time travel sci-fi fans call a Djinn Object.  It seems to have come from somewhere, a certain well understood right, but in fact was never created by the hand of man if one is to believe certain radical conservative justices.  Which seems mindbending.  Laws are agreements between people, so it would seem to me you can establish any sort of right, if society moves that way.  IOW, don't all rights start out unenumerated?  In the big picture.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 04:11:34 PM by Barton3.0 »
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Espnthree

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29698 on: July 20, 2022, 04:22:05 PM »

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   
Pretty narrow interpretation since Dobbs now establishes a clear road map, if you will, to examine future cases involving unenumerated rights.
Which is precisely the point everyone else here has been making. Gay marriage is not an enumerated right. Access to birth control is not an enumerated right. Interracial marriage is not an enumerated right. Gay sex is not an enumerated right. None of those is any more deeply rooted in our history or.tradition than Roe was. There is now a."clear road map" to eliminate or limit those rights, and the Democrats are moving to prevent that from happening.
You are really at sea  on this one.
I suggest you actually read the decision.
You might also be helped by researching Washington v. Glucksberg https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/521/702/
Happy reading.
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Espnthree

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Re: Biden Administration
« Reply #29699 on: July 20, 2022, 04:24:46 PM »

Erm, if you're following the chat, it points towards a Supreme disregard of the 9th amendment
Just the opposite.
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