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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hairy Lime]

Who said "genocide is okay" ?   I don't see that on the videos or transcripts.  Saying speech that advocates genocide is tolerated is not saying genocide is okay.   Free speech positions, good or bad, are not positions endorsing the content of said speech.  So I want to know if Luee was being honest, i.e. did a college prez actually say "genocide is okay."

Well, the answer to that is yes

Liar. She was not saying genocide is ok, but discussing when it is appropriate for a University to intervene in political speech. Try to be slightly honest about the views of others for a change.

The question to the Harvard President:

Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard rules of bullying and harassment? ?

The answer


It can be, depending on the context.
That is a yes.

No it is not. It is a legitimate answer to the question.

No wonder she scrambled to back track in less than a day


And arguing that speech that advocates genocide is not saying genocide is okay is what? How do you explain calling for genocide but not meaning it.?
Is there a harmless form of genocide?

As it happens I kind of agree with you there. Calling for genocide is always a hate crime. But what constitutes calling for genocide is the issue. The slogans Little Miss Trumpian Kiss Ass asked about involve sovereignty over Palestine and Israel, not the extermination of Jews. As a University President there is a virtue in not suppressing one side of the issue by demonizing it. If only to avoid civil rights litigation. My worry is that there are forces trying to use very legitimate disgust over the actions of Hamas to completely shut down the pro Palestinian political support.

And I look forward to you completely changing your spots the next time Turning Point USA schedules in some luee as a campus speaker.

[facilitatorn]

Conservative movements cannot survive in high literacy environments.

Republicans, tired of getting their asses kicked by women who are tougher, smarter, and better prepared than right wingers will ever be, are trying to terrorize and disrupt every institution of learning they can get hooks in.

Something is putting a dent in republican rape culture and the impunity afforded to white men. This makes republicans very angry and gives them an urge to lash out that they will not try to control.

If you want to understand republican outrage campaigns, study the behavior of a cornered rat. It amounts to the same thing.

[LarryB!]

Infamous Yes or No questions:

Do you still beat your wife?
Are you still a member of the Communist party?
Do you still cheat on your taxes?

Answering No means you admit you once did or were.

[LarryB!]

To endorse free speech is not to endorse the content of whatever free speech happens.  One is free to counter or repudiate that content with your own free speech.

That's probably fine on an intellectual level and from "a marketplace of ideas" approach.  And it's a sentiment I generally agree with.

But then why do these schools have rules against bullying and harassment in the first place?

Well, that was the point the School Presidents were making. It is often situational. There are things you can say in a political way, but it is different when, say, screamed in someone's face. It is the targeting that often makes the offense. Calling to renew the Holocaust probably is always a violation, but demand for Palestinian statehood, even statehood over the entirety of the area, is a political position not necessarily different in kind than insisting on Jewish control over the area. But if expressed in a hostile way towards.a.person, it becomes the violation. Take a look at something less controversial. Russia out of Ukraine! would be acceptable political speech, but shouting it in the face of a Russian student is not.

[LarryB!]

Yes or no, words matter. Genocidal hate speech is unacceptable. The concept itself is unacceptable under any context. College presidents must know better. Just wondering why the rules against bullying or harassment were not enforced. Biden brought in minority dummies? Yes the exact phrase genocide is OK was never used but implied.

OK, I'll agree with most of that.  Rules against hate speech should be enforced.  The part about Biden I don't understand given he's not tasked with running private colleges.  Finally, I disagree that tolerating genocidal speech (however wrong that may be) implies approval of such speech.  There are many angry overheated blasts of rhetoric from small minorities of Americans which are allowed on 1st Amendment principles but that allowance in no way implies agreement.

[LarryB!]

So President Gay remains President.
But in explaining why the Harvard brain trust , in the same statement, pointed out Gay, in an unrelated matter, plagiarized some of her research work.
She is actively correcting those entries.

Probably not a good time to measure for new curtains in the Presidential residence.

Mr King, who was Ms Gays thesis adviser and runs Harvards Institute for Quantitative Social Science, hit back at Mr Rufos claims, calling them absurd in an interview with The Daily Beast on Monday.


There is not a conceivable case that this is plagiarism, he said. Mr King also added that Ms Gays work underwent extensive review and never provoked even a suggestion of plagiarism. Her dissertation and every draft I read of it met the highest academic standards, he insisted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/harvard-president-claudine-gay-plagiarsm-accusations-b2462685.html

[Hairy Lime]

noun
noun: equivocation; plural noun: equivocations
1. the use of ambiguous language to conceal the truth or to avoid committing oneself; prevarication.

You can quote the definition. But you do not understand it.

I do not need your  interpretation of what we all learned in grade school.

I understand you do not think that you do. I also understand those last three words were superfluous.

[LarryB!]

A little bit about Christopher Rufo.

Rufo had recently arrived for a monthlong visiting fellowship with the institute, an incubator for US ideologues who consider Prime Minister Viktor Orbans brand of nationalist populism, particularly Orbans muscular use of state power, as a model to be replicated. Orbans illiberal democracy has subjugated the independent press, banned LGBTQ content from schools, ended gender studies in universities, and evicted the Central European University from Hungary. This last effort had the dual benefit of exiling a global postcommunist bastion of liberal values, social sciences, and humanities while eradicating the influence of its founder, Hungarian-born philanthropist George Soros, whose extensive financial investments in upholding democratic institutions throughout former communist countries have been demonized, often in blatantly antisemitic ways, by the right in both nations.

In essence, Rufo is a White Nationalist or closely identifies with them.


Rufo also embellishes HIS academic bona fides

https://newrepublic.com/article/170647/christopher-rufo-harvard-degree-misleading

[Hairy Lime]

Who said "genocide is okay" ?   I don't see that on the videos or transcripts.  Saying speech that advocates genocide is tolerated is not saying genocide is okay.   Free speech positions, good or bad, are not positions endorsing the content of said speech.  So I want to know if Luee was being honest, i.e. did a college prez actually say "genocide is okay."

Well, the answer to that is yes

Liar. She was not saying genocide is ok, but discussing when it is appropriate for a University to intervene in political speeech

ok,

She certainly was. Refer back to the meaning of Equivocation.

I did. I realize you have an ape reading philosophy thing going on there, Otto.

The question to the Harvard President:

Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard rules of bullying and harassment? ?

The answer


It can be, depending on the context.
That is a yes.

No it is not. It is a legitimate answer to the question.

NoBut what constitutes calling for genocide is the issue. [

what constitutes calling for genocide is hate

The slogans Little Miss Trumpian Kiss Ass asked about involve sovereignty over Palestine and Israel, not the extermination of Jews. As a University President there is a virtue in not suppressing one side of the issue by demonizing it.

Throughout centuries of civilization no crime has been more demonized than Genocide

  worry is that there are forces trying to use very legitimate disgust over the actions of Hamas to completely shut down the pro Palestinian political support.

hen you should direct your vitriol toward Hamas.

There are not the ones using legitimate disgust over their actions to completely shut down the pro Palestinian political support so the "then" makes no sense. And I have so far sufficient vitriol for multiple entites.

[Hairy Lime]

It looks like RedDick's disgust at his own formatting lead him to delete his post. Seriously, I feel your pain.

[Espnthree]

It looks like RedDick's disgust at his own formatting lead him to delete his post. Seriously, I feel your pain.

The formatting issues are irksome.
Your propensity to deal in insults makes dealing with formatting a waste of time.
I will just summarize my points.
The Harvard President lied when she equivocated about genocide being okay.
Throwing shade on the questioner is normal when the answers are embarrassing
That the actions by the Harvard Students were designed to shut down political support for Palestinians is made out of whole cloth. The students  just hate their Jewish counterparts.
Harvard will discipline a professor for using the wrong student pronouns but nothing when other students receive death threats.

[bambu.]

The Guardian;
 19h


New Jersey Arab Americans Go On Strike Over Gaza

Story by Edward Helmore in Paterson, New Jersey

[bambu.]

/cont'd

A general strike called after the US blocked a UN resolution calling for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza took hold across New Jersey's Arab American communities on Monday.

[bambu.]

cont'd;

"We hope it sends a message that Muslims are unified, the public unified and we'll all on the same page, and that we're willing to sacrifice our business to make our voices heard." said Dr Jabeen Ahmed, a local pharmacy owner and member of several state medical boards

#####

What the 'unified Muslims' should be doing...is blaming Hamas! [and all its supporters.]

Sacrificing their businesses is a bad idea, will only bring more misery.

It is Islamic terrorist Hamas that started this war, on 7 October, when Islamic Hamas fighters from Gaza invaded Israel by land, sea, and air and slaughtered innocent Jewish citizens, including children and babies, in their homes...unspeakable atrocities.
And massacred innocent Israeli citizens at the Concert for Peace.

It is Islamic terrorist Hamas that is still holding hostages, and still fighting against IDF personnel in Gaza.

A delegation of Australian politicians reported to my tv news this morning, from a kibbutz where a 10/7 atrocity-massacre took place.
Look at all those bullet holes!

Delegation backed no ceasefire, as it would, in their opinion, only allow Hamas to regroup, re-arm, and carry out more atrocity-massacres.

Delegation stated that the best way forward would be for Hamas to;

. Release all the hostages.
. Hand over all its leaders.
. Hand over all its fighters.
. Surrender all its weapons/missiles etc.
. Totally disband forever.

[Hairy Lime]

It looks like RedDick's disgust at his own formatting lead him to delete his post. Seriously, I feel your pain.

The formatting issues are irksome.
Your propensity to deal in insults makes dealing with formatting a waste of time.
I will just summarize my points.
The Harvard President lied when she equivocated about genocide being okay.

Except, she did not lie, she accurately stated her view of the school's rules on hate speech. She did not equivocate. And she never said genocide was ok and in fact specifically denounced it and genocidal speech at several other juncture of her speech. So that is three lies from you in one sentence. And the lie in the implied position that a statement of the legal impact of the speech of another is her personal adoption of the content of that speech. Even for a PROVEN LIAR like you, that is an accomplishment.

Throwing shade on the questioner is normal when the answers are embarrassing
That the actions by the Harvard Students were designed to shut down political support for Palestinians is made out of whole cloth. The students  just hate their Jewish counterparts.

Got a cite for that, counselor?

Harvard will discipline a professor for using the wrong student pronouns but nothing when other students receive death threats.

Specific examples, or did you makes this bull shit up?