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Very

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Some

4 (33.3%)

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0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hairy Lime]

Two coal eating buggy whip lost cause geezers stuck on their calcifying asses moaning and sputtering about how the world will not stop passing them by.

If only Red and Bambu had some of the youthfulness, optimism, and clear sighted know how of President Biden. Then their lives would not be such shambles

When are you going to get it into your brain that *nobody* wants your electric cars, that they are a croc.
Toyota guy says maximum take up will only ever be 30%.
He employs 5 million people worldwide...making gasoline/diesel powered vehicles.
Who's going to buy an EV that they can *never* sell or trade in, that are basically *worthless* used?
Checked lately how much it costs to insure an EV?
Then there are the battery fires.

I have an EV. Bought it used. I love it. You have been fed a line of horse shit and have swallowed it gleefully and called it delicious.

Yesterday I watched on YouTube "The Car Care Nut" (America)(been following him since the pandemic began.)
He's a very intelligent, very experienced, Toyota certified mechanic, EV certified as well.
He knows all about EVs and Hybrids.

He was putting a new electric battery in a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid in excellent condition that had done only 137, 000 miles.
He explains very clearly what and why he's doing things, the camera close up all the time.
He's not a tall man, luckily, as he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery.
The new battery arrived in a special reusable crate as mandated by the federal govt.
He removed the battery from the crate and started explaining the workings of the battery
I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

My advice is to not buy a 2008 Camry. But it is not 2008 anymore.

[Yankguy1]

Rode in my friend's brand-new Model Y yesterday.  What a marvelous vehicle.

[Hairy Lime]

Hard time to be optimistic. Has anyone actually seen a recharging station? Another 4 years with one of there 2. Yikes!

That is one of the complaints motorists have.

"Where have you ever seen one of them new fangled gasoline stations? What if you cannot find one and you run out of fuel for your carriage and there isn't one near by! No thank you! I'll keep my horse! It can graze anywhere!"

[jmmengel]

Two coal eating buggy whip lost cause geezers stuck on their calcifying asses moaning and sputtering about how the world will not stop passing them by.

If only Red and Bambu had some of the youthfulness, optimism, and clear sighted know how of President Biden. Then their lives would not be such shambles

When are you going to get it into your brain that *nobody* wants your electric cars, that they are a croc.
Toyota guy says maximum take up will only ever be 30%.
He employs 5 million people worldwide...making gasoline/diesel powered vehicles.
Who's going to buy an EV that they can *never* sell or trade in, that are basically *worthless* used?
Checked lately how much it costs to insure an EV?
Then there are the battery fires.

I have an EV. Bought it used. I love it. You have been fed a line of horse shit and have swallowed it gleefully and called it delicious.

Yesterday I watched on YouTube "The Car Care Nut" (America)(been following him since the pandemic began.)
He's a very intelligent, very experienced, Toyota certified mechanic, EV certified as well.
He knows all about EVs and Hybrids.

He was putting a new electric battery in a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid in excellent condition that had done only 137, 000 miles.
He explains very clearly what and why he's doing things, the camera close up all the time.
He's not a tall man, luckily, as he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery.
The new battery arrived in a special reusable crate as mandated by the federal govt.
He removed the battery from the crate and started explaining the workings of the battery
I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

My advice is to not buy a 2008 Camry. But it is not 2008 anymore.

The 2008 Camry is more reliable and cost effective than an EV.

[Hairy Lime]

Two coal eating buggy whip lost cause geezers stuck on their calcifying asses moaning and sputtering about how the world will not stop passing them by.

If only Red and Bambu had some of the youthfulness, optimism, and clear sighted know how of President Biden. Then their lives would not be such shambles

When are you going to get it into your brain that *nobody* wants your electric cars, that they are a croc.
Toyota guy says maximum take up will only ever be 30%.
He employs 5 million people worldwide...making gasoline/diesel powered vehicles.
Who's going to buy an EV that they can *never* sell or trade in, that are basically *worthless* used?
Checked lately how much it costs to insure an EV?
Then there are the battery fires.

I have an EV. Bought it used. I love it. You have been fed a line of horse shit and have swallowed it gleefully and called it delicious.

Yesterday I watched on YouTube "The Car Care Nut" (America)(been following him since the pandemic began.)
He's a very intelligent, very experienced, Toyota certified mechanic, EV certified as well.
He knows all about EVs and Hybrids.

He was putting a new electric battery in a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid in excellent condition that had done only 137, 000 miles.
He explains very clearly what and why he's doing things, the camera close up all the time.
He's not a tall man, luckily, as he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery.
The new battery arrived in a special reusable crate as mandated by the federal govt.
He removed the battery from the crate and started explaining the workings of the battery
I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

My advice is to not buy a 2008 Camry. But it is not 2008 anymore.

The 2008 Camry is more reliable and cost effective than an EV.

Well, assuming you do not have loan payments. I will match my EV for both reliability and cost-effectiveness. The only repair in the 4 years we have had it has been replacing the 9 volt battery, and that is because Phoenix fucking cooks car batteries.

Well, routine maintenance is also more expensive, but that is a brand difference, not an EV difference. Fucking Germans.

[Oilcandide]

...he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery....

I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

IC car repair is more frequent and often involves procedures just as elaborate and more messy, e.g. replacing a transmission or rebuilding an engine. 

But the larger issue here, which I have yet to hear you reply to, is that newer engineering takes time to percolate through the market, correct bugs, and achieve economies of scale.  Starting a car in 1915, a man could break his arm.  So better engineering (like fucking Germans are fond of) remedied this so you can start your car turning a key or pushing a button.

[Oilcandide]

Freedom ..is to be able to choose what type of vehicle to buy, not have Albo and Co tell me.
Same should apply to Americans in America.

I want to buy a tunnel borer.  But there are regulations that make this impossible, because I don't have special training, construction permits, licensing, etc.  So I am not completely free to buy my dream vehicle.  Boohoo.

[bambu.]

Two coal eating buggy whip lost cause geezers stuck on their calcifying asses moaning and sputtering about how the world will not stop passing them by.

If only Red and Bambu had some of the youthfulness, optimism, and clear sighted know how of President Biden. Then their lives would not be such shambles

When are you going to get it into your brain that *nobody* wants your electric cars, that they are a croc.
Toyota guy says maximum take up will only ever be 30%.
He employs 5 million people worldwide...making gasoline/diesel powered vehicles.
Who's going to buy an EV that they can *never* sell or trade in, that are basically *worthless* used?
Checked lately how much it costs to insure an EV?
Then there are the battery fires.

I have an EV. Bought it used. I love it. You have been fed a line of horse shit and have swallowed it gleefully and called it delicious.

Yesterday I watched on YouTube "The Car Care Nut" (America)(been following him since the pandemic began.)
He's a very intelligent, very experienced, Toyota certified mechanic, EV certified as well.
He knows all about EVs and Hybrids.

He was putting a new electric battery in a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid in excellent condition that had done only 137, 000 miles.
He explains very clearly what and why he's doing things, the camera close up all the time.
He's not a tall man, luckily, as he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery.
The new battery arrived in a special reusable crate as mandated by the federal govt.
He removed the battery from the crate and started explaining the workings of the battery
I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

My advice is to not buy a 2008 Camry. But it is not 2008 anymore.

The 2008 Camry is more reliable and cost effective than an EV.

Well, assuming you do not have loan payments. I will match my EV for both reliability and cost-effectiveness. The only repair in the 4 years we have had it has been replacing the 9 volt battery, and that is because Phoenix fucking cooks car batteries.

Well, routine maintenance is also more expensive, but that is a brand difference, not an EV difference. Fucking Germans.

[Oilcandide]

Hard time to be optimistic. Has anyone actually seen a recharging station? Another 4 years with one of those 2. Yikes!

I live in South Dakota in a small city.  They are everywhere.  There are six charging stations at Target near where I usually park.  Stations downtown, by the mall and other shopping centers, along I-90, on Rushmore Road, at banks, a couple car washes, a Conoco station, at Rushmore itself (Abe, Tom, Ted, and George watch over), at car dealers like Kia, Mitsubishi and Honda, etc.  130, and counting.  14 are FREE.

Your blinkered ignorance: Yikes!

[bambu.]

Rode in my friend's brand-new Model Y yesterday.  What a marvelous vehicle.

He must be rich...live in a city...and only travel short distances then back home.
Which is all good.
The problems for average joe are:

. Cost of purchase
. Cost of insurance
. Time to repair after an accident
. Lack of recharging infrastructure.
. Time needed to stop and recharge when going any distance.
. Cost of battery replacement as average joe keeps his new cars for 10-20 years.

[bambu.]

...he had to dismantle the whole inside of the car from behind the driver's seat including in the trunk, to get the battery out.
Seat, including back, plastic mouldings, screws, bolts, clips...then go around to the trunk and take all the mouldings out of it.
Then remove the plastic battery exhaust pipe. Then the plastic exhaust fan.
Then start removing all the nuts and power source cables from the battery housing/battery.
Finally arrived at the battery....

I was exhausted by then, could watch no longer.
Part of my exhaustion was thinking how much it would all cost.
He would have to put the whole thing back together again!

IC car repair is more frequent and often involves procedures just as elaborate and more messy, e.g. replacing a transmission or rebuilding an engine. 

But the larger issue here, which I have yet to hear you reply to, is that newer engineering takes time to percolate through the market, correct bugs, and achieve economies of scale.  Starting a car in 1915, a man could break his arm.  So better engineering (like fucking Germans are fond of) remedied this so you can start your car turning a key or pushing a button.

In time EVs might be a better proposition than they are today for average Joe, but no way that will be by Pres Biden's aim of 2/3 of new car sales EVs in 10 years time...which is basically 'next week'.
Wasn't there a ban on IC vehicles after 2033?
Has that ban now turned into an aim?

[bambu.]

 "Here's a fun stat:  Ford lost $36,000 per every electric vehicle it sold in the third quarter of 2023."

[Oilcandide]

In time EVs might be a better proposition than they are today for average Joe, but no way that will be by Pres Biden's ban on new IC cars in 10 years time...which is basically 'next week'.

Tesla bringing a 25K (US$) model to market next year.  Several companies have already done this, successfully.   Stop posting oil company sponsored propaganda and look at the big picture. 

[luee]

In all the folderol over Joe Biden wearing a construction hat backwards did anyone consider the stupidity of the UAW endorsing his candidacy?
Talk about backwards
Biden wants to end production of internal combustion cars and replace them with EVs.
Consider how many UAW jobs will be lost as electric cars will be built by non-Union workers!
Even worse Biden is pouring billions of dollars of our tax money into incentives to buy an electric car.
At a time when the EV market is stumbling and the head of Toyota says EVs will never exceed 30 per cent of the global market.

Duh!


He has increased wages but it does not keep up with inflation. Fixed income people really suffer. Joe's pet hobby of welcoming aliens is expensive to all.

[jmmengel]

In time EVs might be a better proposition than they are today for average Joe, but no way that will be by Pres Biden's ban on new IC cars in 10 years time...which is basically 'next week'.

Tesla bringing a 25K (US$) model to market next year.  Several companies have already done this, successfully.   Stop posting oil company sponsored propaganda and look at the big picture.

If the Big Pictureis ONLY electric cars it will never happen.