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Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: February 13, 2022, 10:41:25 PM

[josh]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-mlb-predictions/

[kidcarter8]

4 games today again - sweet

Sitting at 4-6 this round.  (Assumes taking series winner in each game)
6-6 overall

[Hamilton Samuels]

They're calling for a rewrite!

https://theathletic.com/2881684/2021/10/11/rosenthal-strange-play-in-game-3-of-red-sox-rays-shows-rule-needs-to-be-adjusted/

 

[Hamilton Samuels]

 WSJ concludes the Rays were penalized by the poor play of the outfielder, which was my point, last night.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/red-sox-rays-alds-hunter-renfroe-11633954643

[Yankguy1]

Well at least you know understand that it was the correct call.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Well at least you know understand that it was the correct call.

I understood that yesterday.

But that doesn't change the results of the Rays being punished due to the incompetence of their opponent. Or, the Sox being rewarded for fucking up.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Excellent point: https://twitter.com/joe_sheehan/status/1447399516852871169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1447399516852871169%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeadspin.com%2Fembed%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1447399516852871169autosize%3D1

[Yankguy1]

So you "understood that yesterday" when you said: "Holy crap that's a horrible call!!!  It's TOTALLY the fault if the Sox player that the ball went out of play. Tampa should play the game under protest from this point on." ?

[Hamilton Samuels]

So you "understood that yesterday" when you said: "Holy crap that's a horrible call!!!  It's TOTALLY the fault if the Sox player that the ball went out of play. Tampa should play the game under protest from this point on." ?

Yes, I did.

REACTING to a play in the instant that it took place. As no one else here did.

So, sue me for being a baseball fan---And if you watched the game, which you may have, you saw Renfroe's reaction. He just barely missed hitting that ball with his glove after reaching for it once he saw it hop over the fence, and had he done so, that would have been a different call.

And maybe a different outcome.

Sox will say they weren't lucky to win that game, but most of us know differently.

[josh]

They're calling for a rewrite!

https://theathletic.com/2881684/2021/10/11/rosenthal-strange-play-in-game-3-of-red-sox-rays-shows-rule-needs-to-be-adjusted/

Some of "they" are calling for a rewrite.

The umpire they quoted likes the rule the way it is - it simplifies his life.

I think this "automatic" double should get a rewrite, too. But I have felt that umpires have been screwing up ground rule doubles for decades, by not exercising their placement options.

And their refusal, the overwhelming bulk of the time, to enforce the HBP rule that allows them to not give the hitter the base has irked me forever, even before some hitters became fully armored - but now?! Wikipedia notes, "If the batter does not attempt to avoid the pitch, he is not awarded first base, and the pitch is ruled either a strike if in the strike zone or a ball if out of the strike zone. Umpires rarely make this call." Perhaps a rewrite to make it a strike or even to have the batter be out would change hitters' conduct.

Some of the unchallengeable plays need to become challengeable.

Getting rid of the 3 batter minimum and limited mound visits rules seems called for, given that this season, the average MLB game took three hours, 10 minutes and seven seconds to play, a new record high with those rules.

And get rid of the runner on 2nd base in extras if it isn't good enough for post season play! Or ditch those two prior rules for post season play, if you are going to make it different, anyway.

Sure, change the pinball rule before next season. I have no objection, but it is hardly the only one that needs some tweaking.

[Hamilton Samuels]

They're calling for a rewrite!

https://theathletic.com/2881684/2021/10/11/rosenthal-strange-play-in-game-3-of-red-sox-rays-shows-rule-needs-to-be-adjusted/

Some of "they" are calling for a rewrite.

The umpire they quoted likes the rule the way it is - it simplifies his life.

I think this "automatic" double should get a rewrite, too. But I have felt that umpires have been screwing up ground rule doubles for decades, by not exercising their placement options.

And their refusal, the overwhelming bulk of the time, to enforce the HBP rule that allows them to not give the hitter the base has irked me forever, even before some hitters became fully armored - but now?! Wikipedia notes, "If the batter does not attempt to avoid the pitch, he is not awarded first base, and the pitch is ruled either a strike if in the strike zone or a ball if out of the strike zone. Umpires rarely make this call." Perhaps a rewrite to make it a strike or even to have the batter be out would change hitters' conduct.

Some of the unchallengeable plays need to become challengeable.

Getting rid of the 3 batter minimum and limited mound visits rules seems called for, given that this season, the average MLB game took three hours, 10 minutes and seven seconds to play, a new record high with those rules.

And get rid of the runner on 2nd base in extras if it isn't good enough for post season play! Or ditch those two prior rules for post season play, if you are going to make it different, anyway.

Sure, change the pinball rule before next season. I have no objection, but it is hardly the only one that needs some tweaking.

Yes, I agree we should tweak other rules, too, most importantly the DH, which should be either eliminated or put into the NL so that each league plays the same fucking game.

However, to keep to the topic, this rule takes an error by the defense and rewards the defense for that error. That's fundamentally unfair.

What other sport has that kind of thing in place? 


.

 

[josh]

Excellent point: https://twitter.com/joe_sheehan/status/1447399516852871169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1447399516852871169%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeadspin.com%2Fembed%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1447399516852871169autosize%3D1

Further down that same set of tweets was Buster Olney's "It was a play we've never seen before, a play that might not ever happen in any park other than Fenway because of its low outfield wall. So let's not pretend there's an emergency to rewrite the rule for the next time the play happens (in 100 years?). Terrible luck for the Rays."

As for the human element, umpires have shown for decades that when left to their own devices, they have tended to ignore the rules.

The HBP batter who doesn't get out of the way is a good example of a remaining issue as is the placement of runners when it is their option on some GR doubles.

But so was the "neighborhood play" at 2nd base, which has finally (mostly) been gotten rid of, I am pleased to say.

[josh]

Unrelatedly, from that same bunch of tweets was this gem:

Lindsey Adler @lindseyadler

[josh]

They're calling for a rewrite!

https://theathletic.com/2881684/2021/10/11/rosenthal-strange-play-in-game-3-of-red-sox-rays-shows-rule-needs-to-be-adjusted/

Some of "they" are calling for a rewrite.

The umpire they quoted likes the rule the way it is - it simplifies his life.

I think this "automatic" double should get a rewrite, too. But I have felt that umpires have been screwing up ground rule doubles for decades, by not exercising their placement options.

And their refusal, the overwhelming bulk of the time, to enforce the HBP rule that allows them to not give the hitter the base has irked me forever, even before some hitters became fully armored - but now?! Wikipedia notes, "If the batter does not attempt to avoid the pitch, he is not awarded first base, and the pitch is ruled either a strike if in the strike zone or a ball if out of the strike zone. Umpires rarely make this call." Perhaps a rewrite to make it a strike or even to have the batter be out would change hitters' conduct.

Some of the unchallengeable plays need to become challengeable.

Getting rid of the 3 batter minimum and limited mound visits rules seems called for, given that this season, the average MLB game took three hours, 10 minutes and seven seconds to play, a new record high with those rules.

And get rid of the runner on 2nd base in extras if it isn't good enough for post season play! Or ditch those two prior rules for post season play, if you are going to make it different, anyway.

Sure, change the pinball rule before next season. I have no objection, but it is hardly the only one that needs some tweaking.

Yes, I agree we should tweak other rules, too, most importantly the DH, which should be either eliminated or put into the NL so that each league plays the same fucking game.

However, to keep to the topic, this rule takes an error by the defense and rewards the defense for that error. That's fundamentally unfair.

What other sport has that kind of thing in place?  .

The NFL has at least one rule and probably a couple more I am less sure of that award a team for having a penalty late in games when they are desperately trying to run down the clock or they want to adjust their field position. Soccer's time out rule is occasionally taken advantage of, but I think is not quite the same thing.

I don't know hockey or basketball rules well enough to have an opinion yea or nay.

[bankshot1]

They're calling for a rewrite!

https://theathletic.com/2881684/2021/10/11/rosenthal-strange-play-in-game-3-of-red-sox-rays-shows-rule-needs-to-be-adjusted/

Some of "they" are calling for a rewrite.

The umpire they quoted likes the rule the way it is - it simplifies his life.

I think this "automatic" double should get a rewrite, too. But I have felt that umpires have been screwing up ground rule doubles for decades, by not exercising their placement options.

And their refusal, the overwhelming bulk of the time, to enforce the HBP rule that allows them to not give the hitter the base has irked me forever, even before some hitters became fully armored - but now?! Wikipedia notes, "If the batter does not attempt to avoid the pitch, he is not awarded first base, and the pitch is ruled either a strike if in the strike zone or a ball if out of the strike zone. Umpires rarely make this call." Perhaps a rewrite to make it a strike or even to have the batter be out would change hitters' conduct.

Some of the unchallengeable plays need to become challengeable.

Getting rid of the 3 batter minimum and limited mound visits rules seems called for, given that this season, the average MLB game took three hours, 10 minutes and seven seconds to play, a new record high with those rules.

And get rid of the runner on 2nd base in extras if it isn't good enough for post season play! Or ditch those two prior rules for post season play, if you are going to make it different, anyway.

Sure, change the pinball rule before next season. I have no objection, but it is hardly the only one that needs some tweaking.

Yes, I agree we should tweak other rules, too, most importantly the DH, which should be either eliminated or put into the NL so that each league plays the same fucking game.

However, to keep to the topic, this rule takes an error by the defense and rewards the defense for that error. That's fundamentally unfair.

What other sport has that kind of thing in place? 


.

NBA and NFL

NBA A defender gets beat so he grabs a guy to prevent an easy basket. Depending on the foul situation its either side out, or making the offensive player shoot two free throws to get what he likely should have gotten without the foul.

NFL-a cornerback holds a guy who's about to streak by him, for a 5 yard penalty and 1st down rather than give up a bigger play, maybe a TD.

EXCEPT those two examples are intentional fouls, Renfroe committed no foul or error, but merely played the game and the umps called the play as per the rule book. The Rays were unlucky.

Last night I was posting elsewhere with Sox, Tampa and Y fans and not surprisingly many of the Rays supporters called for umpire judgement to send the runner home and place Keirmeier at 3rd. Do we really want judgement calls on whether a guy would have scored from first on a "GR double"?

I also heard new rules written on the fly to fit the preffered outcome.

The rule, benefitted the Sox, but in over 60 years of watching baseball, I never saw that play before. Although I understand a very similar play took place a couple of years ago in Tampa.

And they got the same call the Sox got last night.

Which may explain why Cash wasn't so pissed.

He knew the umps made the right call.