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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[LarryBnDC]

George Will:

Furthermore, if Russian President Vladimir Putin s thinly veiled nuclear threats are seen to deter the Biden administration from taking the next step that military logic entails - sophisticated drones for Ukraine - there will be two terrible consequences: Putin will repeatedly make such threats, and the nuclear nonproliferation regime will unravel as other nations ruthless and reckless leaders see the practicality of nuclear weapons and build them...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/05/ukraine-war-aid-us-drones-needed/

Me:  Putin uses his tactical nukes as weapons of intimidation (he knows that actual use as weapons would send radioactive dust into Russia as well as Ukraine).  The best way to defuse a weapon of intimidation...is to not be intimidated.  And, as signatories of NATO, and a nation seen as providing leadership in that organization, it is our duty not to be intimidated. 

Here's the PW-free screenshot of the George Will column....

https://archive.ph/gtrbu

Stepping up your reading past The Guardian is healthy for you.

You seem confused. 

I read ApNews and NPR daily, and WaPo.  Guardian once/week.  The column was in WaPo.

Will is a conservative, making the same case for supporting Ukraine that I was yesterday.   Lime also covered those points, possibly more generous with his sardines than I was.

So what? Neither you nor Hairy, nor Will make a case that interfering in a border fight is worth the billions of dollars we have borrowed  (with billions more to come) plus the added stress of discussing nuclear conflict.
It is not.  In fact it is stupid and dangerous
But seeing you citing George Will is worth the laugh.
I am sure you also agree with his blistering criticism of Biden on other matters in that article.
Yes?

A little border fight?

We should not be involved because Putin, like others before him, only wants piece


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=64DCO2sI7fI

[LarryBnDC]

Red flacking Tucker Carlson talking points


https://www.thebulwark.com/fox-news-putin-propaganda-primetime/

[bambu.]

If Putin gets Ukraine there'll be no stopping him...he'll slowly march across Europe taking every country for Russia.
He'll start 'little border wars' and use the same tactics as in the invasion of Ukraine...and threaten to use nukes.
Putin is only one person, there are many in Russia wanting to rule Europe/the world, obviously.
Helping Ukraine too costly for the US?
Simple solution, make Europe pay more.
Trump had the right idea.

[LarryBnDC]

If Putin gets Ukraine there'll be no stopping him...he'll slowly march across Europe taking every country for Russia.
He'll start 'little border wars' and use the same tactics as in the invasion of Ukraine...and threaten to use nukes.
Putin is only one person, there are many in Russia wanting to rule Europe/the world, obviously.
Helping Ukraine too costly for the US?
Simple solution, make Europe pay more.
Trump had the right idea.

Putin is getting his ass handed to him ny Ukraine.

His citizens are running for the tall timber to avoid being drafted into the Donbas meat grinder.

[Hairy Lime]

George Will:

Furthermore, if Russian President Vladimir Putin s thinly veiled nuclear threats are seen to deter the Biden administration from taking the next step that military logic entails - sophisticated drones for Ukraine - there will be two terrible consequences: Putin will repeatedly make such threats, and the nuclear nonproliferation regime will unravel as other nations ruthless and reckless leaders see the practicality of nuclear weapons and build them...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/05/ukraine-war-aid-us-drones-needed/

Me:  Putin uses his tactical nukes as weapons of intimidation (he knows that actual use as weapons would send radioactive dust into Russia as well as Ukraine).  The best way to defuse a weapon of intimidation...is to not be intimidated.  And, as signatories of NATO, and a nation seen as providing leadership in that organization, it is our duty not to be intimidated. 

Here's the PW-free screenshot of the George Will column....

https://archive.ph/gtrbu

Stepping up your reading past The Guardian is healthy for you.

You seem confused. 

I read ApNews and NPR daily, and WaPo.  Guardian once/week.  The column was in WaPo.

Will is a conservative, making the same case for supporting Ukraine that I was yesterday.   Lime also covered those points, possibly more generous with his sardines than I was.

So what? Neither you nor Hairy, nor Will make a case that interfering in a border fight is worth the billions of dollars we have borrowed  (with billions more to come) plus the added stress of discussing nuclear conflict.
It is not.  In fact it is stupid and dangerous
But seeing you citing George Will is worth the laugh.
I am sure you also agree with his blistering criticism of Biden on other matters in that article.
Yes?

Border fight? Good one Neville.

[Espnthree]

George Will:

Furthermore, if Russian President Vladimir Putin s thinly veiled nuclear threats are seen to deter the Biden administration from taking the next step that military logic entails - sophisticated drones for Ukraine - there will be two terrible consequences: Putin will repeatedly make such threats, and the nuclear nonproliferation regime will unravel as other nations ruthless and reckless leaders see the practicality of nuclear weapons and build them...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/05/ukraine-war-aid-us-drones-needed/

Me:  Putin uses his tactical nukes as weapons of intimidation (he knows that actual use as weapons would send radioactive dust into Russia as well as Ukraine).  The best way to defuse a weapon of intimidation...is to not be intimidated.  And, as signatories of NATO, and a nation seen as providing leadership in that organization, it is our duty not to be intimidated. 

Here's the PW-free screenshot of the George Will column....

https://archive.ph/gtrbu

Stepping up your reading past The Guardian is healthy for you.

You seem confused. 

I read ApNews and NPR daily, and WaPo.  Guardian once/week.  The column was in WaPo.

Will is a conservative, making the same case for supporting Ukraine that I was yesterday.   Lime also covered those points, possibly more generous with his sardines than I was.

So what? Neither you nor Hairy, nor Will make a case that interfering in a border fight is worth the billions of dollars we have borrowed  (with billions more to come) plus the added stress of discussing nuclear conflict.
It is not.  In fact it is stupid and dangerous
But seeing you citing George Will is worth the laugh.
I am sure you also agree with his blistering criticism of Biden on other matters in that article.
Yes?

Border fight? Good one Neville.

Yep.

[bambu.]

On my tv news tonite was shown Ukrainian army reclaiming Russian occupied part of Ukraine.
Russian troops shown surrendering...that's 10 years in prison for them when they get home...Putin's new law.
Shown was a building Russian troops took over...what pigs, they trashed the place and left a mortar behind in the mess.
Also shown was Aussie soldier "Ninja", black balaclava to hide his identity and the weather looked cold.. He said Ukraine was pleading for help so he decided to go.
Serious fire fights he said, he got some shrapnel to the head but he's OK now.
He's back fighting...hope he'll be OK, he seemed nice.
Aussies are banned from joining foreign groups to fight, and there are serious prison sentences for the offence.
"Ninja" said he  doesn't know if he's doing wrong legally fighting with Ukraine against Russia, but doesn't have any immediate plans to return home.
His trial would be interesting, the federal govt V "Ninja", he having gone to fight against evil Russia.
If he makes it home he should be given a medal and thanks, not tossed in prison.

[kidcarter8]

Putin is getting his ass handed to him ny Ukraine.


Not rooting, but here is some reality for you

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

BBC and accuracy.  Imagine that.

[Holly Martins]

Even Russian state tv is starting to report a grim situation for Russia.

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-kherson-counteroffensive-ukraine-war-1749011

The Institute for the Study of War is also finding a similar situation.

https://understandingwar.org/project/ukraine-project

[Espnthree]

Even Russian state tv is starting to report a grim situation for Russia.

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-kherson-counteroffensive-ukraine-war-1749011

The Institute for the Study of War is also finding a similar situation.

https://understandingwar.org/project/ukraine-project

Hurrah for Ukraine.

[LarryBnDC]

Putin is getting his ass handed to him ny Ukraine.


Not rooting, but here is some reality for you

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

BBC and accuracy.  Imagine that.

Yep. Reality.

Russian forces have already been forced to retreat in Ukraine's north-east.
They are now being pushed back in the south as well.
Their latest setbacks came as President Vladimir Putin was due to sign into force decrees annexing four Ukrainian regions, while war was raging in all four.
The annexation has no legitimacy under international law and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has declared them null and void.


BBC and accuracy.  Imagine that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63137061

[kidcarter8]

Even General Grant retreated.

[LarryBnDC]

Even General Grant retreated.

Yeah. Once. First battle he led in 1861 was a small skirmish where his forces overran a Confederate encampment bit ceded the ground when reinforcements arrived in superior numbers at the battle of Belmont. Battle was a push but generally accepted the Union won.

Lee supposedly said, Grant is not a retreating man.

How do you think he got the nickname Butcher?


Grant: Retreat? No, I propose to attack them at daylight and whip them

No amount of spin can turn this into what Montgomery would have called a strategic withdrawal.

Russian bear is getting smoked by the Ukrainian porcupine.

[josh]

Reading through the past few days, I am reminded of what I was "missing."

I do appreciate the articles that I would not otherwise have seen. The nouns, verbs, and modifiers are nice, too.

Ward's of the "Russia won't invade Ukraine" camp, so it follows that he would describe this as only having to do with a single border issue.

He's already forgotten that Putin's forces tried to take Kyiv and denies that Putin could have motives beyond the border.

Sure, he's using his country's resources as a negotiating tool - which is exactly what he would do with food if he took over Ukraine's farms! Giving him more resources to use as weapons is not in the best interests of the United States. Nor is betting that he would stop with Eastern Ukraine, when he didn't with Crimea.

The other countries that border on Russia have no reason to trust Putin. If we stopped supporting Ukraine, they would have no reason to trust the US, either.

[Espnthree]

Reading through the past few days, I am reminded of what I was "missing."

I do appreciate the articles that I would not otherwise have seen. The nouns, verbs, and modifiers are nice, too.

Ward's of the "Russia won't invade Ukraine" camp, so it follows that he would describe this as only having to do with a single border issue.

He's already forgotten that Putin's forces tried to take Kyiv and denies that Putin could have motives beyond the border.

Sure, he's using his country's resources as a negotiating tool - which is exactly what he would do with food if he took over Ukraine's farms! Giving him more resources to use as weapons is not in the best interests of the United States. Nor is betting that he would stop with Eastern Ukraine, when he didn't with Crimea.

The other countries that border on Russia have no reason to trust Putin. If we stopped supporting Ukraine, they would have no reason to trust the US, either.

You were more accurate when you were gone.
Everything in that post referring to me is wrong and disgustingly wrong.