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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[facilitatorn]

Russia was continuously invading Ukraine during the trump misadministration-junta.

Under a legitimately elected President, Joe Biden, they soon realized they could not hold their gains or make further advances. Now they are making as much mess as possible on the way out with a desperate throw of the dice. A reprise of Hitler trying to split the Allies at the Bulge.

[FlyingVProd]

I hate bullies, and Putin is being a bully. I hate to see it happen.

And what everyone wants is for the Ukraine to be strong like Israel and to win even though outnumbered, like Israel did in the 6 Day War. We help Israel, but they fight their own wars even though they are small. Israel has to be strong, it is the nature of the world we live in, and the Ukraine needs to be strong too. We all do.

When I was a little kid in Oregon the bullies used to beat me up because I am from California, and they kept beating me up until my uncle Dennis taught me how to fight and I started fighting back. I defeated the bullies after I learned how to fight, and they stopped picking on me. That is how we must be in this world.

And we need to have zero tolerance for invading other nations and killing innocent people. At this point I have no fear of Putin, only condemnation. The whole world needs to stand up against Putin, the same as we would stop any bully. And we learned that it just gets worse the longer bullies are allowed to continue. Putin needs to be condemned and quickly removed.

I fully agree with you Bambu, we would not just sit by and watch Australia get invaded, or any other nation, and we should not allow Putin to invade Ukraine. We need to hold Putin accountable as we would any criminal.

I support peace until he starts killing innocent people, and then it is time to go in and remove Putin, he crossed the line. So then once people decide to remove Putin then he needs to be removed quickly. The quicker the better.

Salute,

Tony V.

[josh]

A friend of a FB friend writes the following:

The street signs are being removed in Kyiv right now. (My mother-in-law's) house number, too.

"The Ministry of Infrastructure has a sense of humour about it and shared the following (Photoshopped) picture telling the Russian invaders exactly ... where to go."

She translates the sign: "F off - F off again - F off to Russia." More or less. Technically, something more like ]Get on my dick ...' but generally translated as 'F off.'"

[FlyingVProd]

The President of the Ukraine is Jewish, and I am sure that Israel will be more than happy to send weapons to the Ukraine. The Ukraine needs to be strong like Israel. And they need to take the fight to Moscow and remove Putin.

Salute,

Tony V.

[bodiddley]

The Ukraine is outdated and often considered offensive, as though Ukraine was just a territory, a region, a place to colonize.  Just Ukraine thanks.

Krug Man discusses something I was thinking about.  Going after the ill-gotten gains of the Russian oligarchs.  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/opinion/russia-ukraine-sanctions-offshore-accounts.html
Freeze and seize their assets until they can prove where they got the money from.
A lot of it is in UK property, sports teams, and such.  Cyprus apparently a larded with Russian wealth as well.  Seize their assets and give it to the Ukrainians to fight Russia. 

Also, Europe should immediately stop buying Russian oil and gas.  Just stop doing trade with Russia entirely.  Stop giving Putin money.  Oil, gas and minerals is all Russia has.  A gas station with an army.

The Biden Admin should also start leaking all the info it has on the wealth that Putin has, the wealth his family members have, the wealth his inner circle has.  Expose the corruption and scale of the looting of Russia.
 

[josh]

For Tony, from history:

In the 1970s, Pete Seeger was invited to sing in Barcelona, Spain. Francisco Franco's fascist government, the last of the dictatorships that started World War II, was still in power but declining. A pro-democracy movement was gaining strength and to prove it, they invited America's best-known freedom singer to Spain. More than a hundred thousand people were in the stadium, where rock bands had played all day. But the crowd had come for Seeger.

As Pete prepared to go on, government officials handed him a list of songs he was not allowed to sing. Pete studied it mournfully, saying it looked an awful lot like his set list. But they insisted: he must not sing any of these songs.

Pete took the government's list of banned songs and strolled on stage. He held up the paper and said, "I've been told that I'm not allowed to sing these songs." He grinned at the crowd and said, "So I'll just play the chords; maybe you know the words. They didn't say anything about *you* singing them."

He strummed his banjo to one song after another, and they all sang. A hundred thousand defiant freedom singers breaking the law with Pete Seeger, filling the stadium with words their government did not want them to hear, words they all knew and had sung together, in secret circles, for years. What could the government do? Arrest a hundred thousand singers? It had been beaten by a few banjo chords and the fame of a man whose songs were on the lips of the whole world.

[bambu.]

The President of the Ukraine is Jewish, and I am sure that Israel will be more than happy to send weapons to the Ukraine. The Ukraine needs to be strong like Israel. And they need to take the fight to Moscow and remove Putin.

Salute,

Tony V.

Too late now, should've sent them months ago.
Russians are going to kill him as soon as they find him.

[bambu.]

The people of Ukraine are going to fight to the death.
Ridiculous idea.
They should've surrendered on the first day.
With the world just watching them get massacred, they're never going to win.

Thank you for your input Marshal Petain.

Surely you don't believe Ukraine can beat Russia.

Stop calling me Shirley.

Viva la resistance.

All that will do is get all the men 18-60 who are being prevented from leaving Ukraine and being forced to fight Russia...slaughtered.

Says Bambi, concerned about loss of life, seven posts after he said "crank up the nukes."

You do understand when nukes are used, it means millions or billions of noncombatant lives lost and a global ecological catastrophe that will make the living envy the dead, right?

I do.
But, if the good guys don't have their nukes ready to fire, and the bad guys know that, the bad guys will keep right on doing what they're doing now.

Trump warned NK that it would cease to exist if it attacked the US or any of its allies.
NK stopped firing missiles around.
As soon as Trump left and Biden arrived NK raised its head again and as expected has joined up with China and is talking tough again.
Maybe if Russians think they're going to cease to exist they might just rid themselves of Putin, one way or another.
Maybe if Chinese think they're all going to cease to exist they might just rid themselves of Xi, one way or another, or at least make him stop threatening war.

You really don't understand the strategic concept called MAD, do you?  There are no winning sides in a nuclear exchange. 

And NK never lowered its head, it never stopped working on warheads and missiles.  The change of administration had no effect. 

And Putin is a fascist dictator.  What citizens there think about nuclear war has no clout with him.  If he wants to act like a madman to intimidate opponents and get concessions, he will do so.

Which he's doing very well ...and is working very well for him now.
Should be interesting after he's taken Ukraine and starts invading Latvia.

[josh]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2400-years-of-european-history

[Holly Martins]

The Ukraine is outdated and often considered offensive, as though Ukraine was just a territory, a region, a place to colonize.  Just Ukraine thanks.

Krug Man discusses something I was thinking about.  Going after the ill-gotten gains of the Russian oligarchs.  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/opinion/russia-ukraine-sanctions-offshore-accounts.html
Freeze and seize their assets until they can prove where they got the money from.
A lot of it is in UK property, sports teams, and such.  Cyprus apparently a larded with Russian wealth as well.  Seize their assets and give it to the Ukrainians to fight Russia. 

Also, Europe should immediately stop buying Russian oil and gas.  Just stop doing trade with Russia entirely.  Stop giving Putin money.  Oil, gas and minerals is all Russia has.  A gas station with an army.

The Biden Admin should also start leaking all the info it has on the wealth that Putin has, the wealth his family members have, the wealth his inner circle has.  Expose the corruption and scale of the looting of Russia.

I think UK, EU and US are working on asset seizure as we speak.  A lot of people know Putin runs a kleptocracy.   Rachel Maddow had a good segment on how small and petro-dependent the Russian economy is - GNP smaller than Italy, average wage lower than Romania - and yet is by far the largest nation on Earth with one tenth of the total land area.  The oligarchs are vampires, sucking Russia dry.  I'll try to find a link to Maddow.

Zelenskyy, the more I learn of him, the more impressive I find him.  Really starting to like him, which means I will be all the more angry if they send him off to a gulag.  Putin seems like a monster, out to smother the potential and waste the talents of Russia and surrounding nations. 

Will read Krug Man when I can find a way.  Paywall is getting stricter and I've used up free articles on both email signups I have there.

[bambu.]

Russia was continuously invading Ukraine during the trump misadministration-junta.

Under a legitimately elected President, Joe Biden, they soon realized they could not hold their gains or make further advances. Now they are making as much mess as possible on the way out with a desperate throw of the dice. A reprise of Hitler trying to split the Allies at the Bulge.

Russia will own Ukraine soon.
Own the lot of it.
Then, whilever no one will go to war with it, will just keep going, take all the Balkans, Poland, everywhere in Europe.
Russian tanks, planes, and missiles will just subdue Europe.
Trump said it true, Europe didn't spend enough on its own defences, used America, relied on America.
American taxpayers should not have to pay for defence of Europe. European taxpayers should.

Ditto China...it'll attack Taiwan, then if no one goes to war with it, it'll keep going, take Australia etc.
Eventually Russia and China will own the whole world except for America.
America v The Russia/China world.
No degree from Harvard needed to know who'll win that one.

[bambu.]

The Ukraine is outdated and often considered offensive, as though Ukraine was just a territory, a region, a place to colonize.  Just Ukraine thanks.

Krug Man discusses something I was thinking about.  Going after the ill-gotten gains of the Russian oligarchs.  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/opinion/russia-ukraine-sanctions-offshore-accounts.html
Freeze and seize their assets until they can prove where they got the money from.
A lot of it is in UK property, sports teams, and such.  Cyprus apparently a larded with Russian wealth as well.  Seize their assets and give it to the Ukrainians to fight Russia. 

Also, Europe should immediately stop buying Russian oil and gas.  Just stop doing trade with Russia entirely.  Stop giving Putin money.  Oil, gas and minerals is all Russia has.  A gas station with an army.

The Biden Admin should also start leaking all the info it has on the wealth that Putin has, the wealth his family members have, the wealth his inner circle has.  Expose the corruption and scale of the looting of Russia.

I think UK, EU and US are working on asset seizure as we speak.  A lot of people know Putin runs a kleptocracy.   Rachel Maddow had a good segment on how small and petro-dependent the Russian economy is - GNP smaller than Italy, average wage lower than Romania - and yet is by far the largest nation on Earth with one tenth of the total land area.  The oligarchs are vampires, sucking Russia dry.  I'll try to find a link to Maddow.

Zelenskyy, the more I learn of him, the more impressive I find him.  Really starting to like him, which means I will be all the more angry if they send him off to a gulag.  Putin seems like a monster, out to smother the potential and waste the talents of Russia and surrounding nations. 

Will read Krug Man when I can find a way.  Paywall is getting stricter and I've used up free articles on both email signups I have there.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy
President of Ukraine

Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy is a Ukrainian politician, former actor and comedian who has been serving as the president of Ukraine since 2019. Zelenskyy grew up in Kryvyi Rih, a Russian-speaking region in southeastern Ukraine.

#####

He starred in '8 First Dates'.

We won't be hearing anything from poor ol' Volodymyr once the Russians catch him...the only date he'll be having will be with the executioner or the gulag.

[facilitatorn]

Can Russia sustain massed troops and supply lines around Ukrainian cities long enough to form lines of battle? The losses just getting lead elements into position exceeds all expectations.

Every hour this takes is another few truckloads of stingers and javelins and who knows what else making their way towards various fronts.

[josh]

Will read Krug Man when I can find a way.  Paywall is getting stricter and I've used up free articles on both email signups I have there.

https://archive.fo/iyDzA from the 24th. The 25th doesn't look inspiring, but find a url and plug it in.

[FlyingVProd]

Bambu, Ukraine needs to go straight to Moscow and kill Putin. Quickly.

Salute,

Tony V.