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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[Hairy Lime]

The Western fake news media machine does what it does, feeds out bullshit. And western people, for the most part, lap it up.

But the reality is this:

https://www.unseenopp.com/kiev-will-fall-soon-heres-what-that-means-for-stocks/

...Tilting sentiment today were satellite images that showed a convoy of Russian military vehicles en route to Kiev, the Ukrainian capital. This came as a bit of a surprise to some, as the mainstream media had spent last weekend fawning over Ukraine

Do you even watch the mainstream media? Putin escalating in the face of military checks, and the eventual fall of Kyiv and Ukraine, if Russia has the will for it, has been predicted by literally everyone. And the article uses as qn example of how the mainstream media is "fawning over Ukraine"... videos on Facebook and Tik Tok.

[kiidcarter8]

"Vladimir Putin has killed Swedish neutrality and German pacifism in a single weekend."

Samuel Ramani

Also, Swiss banks are freezing identified Russian assets. Swiss Banks! Biden's careful approach rebuilding our alliances, managed intelligence releases and measured pace on sanctions has at least brought all of Europe along.

Yeah.  Good post.

Still plenty to do but President Biden's actions beats some of the alternatives.

Who will stop the tanks and save the city?  All other conversation can wait.

[Hairy Lime]

 All because the west wants to subjugate Russia as they've been wanting to since the end of WWII.

Russia invaded a sovereign nation that did not threaten it at all. You are aware of that, right?

Of course it threatened them. You also show a degree of naivety that I didn't expect. The problem that western people have is they can't see the reverse picture. Once before this happened when the Soviet Union tried to place missiles in Cuba in response to NATO putting missiles right in Russia's underbelly in Turkey. The world almost destroyed itself then. Had Russia been pressing to possibly put missiles in Canada the American people would go crazy. We, as always, think our shit doesn't stink. We went into Afghanistan because "we wanted to", same with fake reason we went into Iraq. But again, our shit doesn't stink. Ukraine threatened Russia way more than Afghanistan or Iraq ever threatened us.

How did Ukraine threaten Russia, other than act as a sovereign nation seeking its own self interest? They never threatened mitary action or any other aggressive action. Like Poland or the Baltic states among other former.Soviet republics and satellites before them, they were interested in joining NATO for.reasons that are all too obvious right now, but that is the right of any sovereign nation. As are stronger economic ties with the west - after all Russia was a G-8 nation until it chose to invade a neighbor.

Ukraine is a non-nuclear state. They went from having the fourth most nuclear weapons to zero because they entered into a treaty where they destroyed them in exchange for a guarantee of non-agression from US and Russia.

This fight has been going on since 2012 and even earlier. You just don't know what you are talking about Steve. Russians were being murdered year after year. We in the West are clueless to the real truth of what has been taking place in Ukraine for years.

Where were the Russians being murdered?

[Hairy Lime]

"Vladimir Putin has killed Swedish neutrality and German pacifism in a single weekend."

Samuel Ramani

Also, Swiss banks are freezing identified Russian assets. Swiss Banks! Biden's careful approach rebuilding our alliances, managed intelligence releases and measured pace on sanctions has at least brought all of Europe along.

Yeah.  Good post.

Still plenty to do but President Biden's actions beats some of the alternatives.

Who will stop the tanks and save the city?  All other conversation can wait.

The Russians will be able to take Kyiv if they are willing to pay the price. We are not getting into a shooting war to protect Kyiv. The question is, what then? I assume Russia will find a Quisling, but absent a long term occupation by Russian troops, how does he keep power? It does not look like the Ukrainian military and.security forces will cooperate.

[CaptainCargo]

I've said my piece and will comment no further here. But I urge you all to seek news outlets that are from different sources than the usual standard western news ilk.

God bless and I hope this war ends today. If not today then as soon as possible.

[bambu.]

Advancing Russian troops held up a white flag...when Ukrainian troops showed themselves other Russian troops in hiding shot them.
Another Russian con.
Never trust Russia, ever.

[bambu.]

Russia has threatened Finland and Sweden that if they join NATO they will be sorry.
Saw an interview with an official from Finland in which he said that about 60% of the people of Finland are in favour of joining NATO now, having seen what's happened to Ukraine...as security is only guaranteed by NATO to member nations.

Finland borders Russia, but Sweden doesn't...and Norway that borders Sweden is a member of NATO.

Also, Russia has basically issued a veiled threat to France that it could be next if it doesn't shut up about economic sanctions on Russia.

[Holly Martins]

How else can you feel?! Young boys are thrown like cannon fodder, and most importantly for what?! For palaces in Gelendzhik?   

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukrainian-officials-upload-videos-of-captured-russian-soldiers-on-telegram

BTW, I will respond to assertions that western media are some monolith of fake news, as soon as evidence is provided.   Specify what is fake, state the source, show me your factcheck from a reputable independent factchecking organization (or a primary source), and I will take that specfic allegation of fakery seriously.  As for "some guy on YouTube said this," that's scraping the bottom of the barrel, so far as credibility is concerned.  Might as well SOTU.

https://southfront.org/war-in-ukraine-day-6-russia-changed-tactics-and-succeeded-huge-casualties-and-humanitarian-disaster-video-18/



We in the West have no clue to what is actually happening because our media is keeping it from us. Both sides lie, but the West has their population trained Pavlovian dog style.

Depends on the dog. (Thanks for link)  I prefer AP coverage where, as in this story, they give the official announcements from both sides, other countries, and then a section called "directly witnessed."

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-media-3a131e7e0bdc006d697a3eb467a66d29

Associated Press journalists around Ukraine and beyond are documenting military activity during Russia s invasion. With disinformation rife and social media amplifying military claims and counterclaims, determining exactly what is happening can be difficult. Here is a look at what could be confirmed Wednesday as Russia s military assault on Ukraine was in its seventh day... 

[Holly Martins]

Quick FYI on "impartial" southfront dot org:

....In May 2020, ANNA News was banned from YouTube for violating its terms of service. It was revealed that employees of ANNA also worked for Russian propaganda websites news-front.info and southfront.org, and that NewsFront had raised money for ANNA in 2014. Both ANNA News and southfront.org support separatist forces in Ukraine....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANNA_News

Good lord, Capt Cargo.  You really are banking on the naivete you imagine exists here in the politics forum.

[CaptainCargo]

Quick FYI on "impartial" southfront dot org:

....In May 2020, ANNA News was banned from YouTube for violating its terms of service. It was revealed that employees of ANNA also worked for Russian propaganda websites news-front.info and southfront.org, and that NewsFront had raised money for ANNA in 2014. Both ANNA News and southfront.org support separatist forces in Ukraine....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANNA_News

Good lord, Capt Cargo.  You really are banking on the naivete you imagine exists here in the politics forum.

It's ALL propaganda Barton, don't be fooled. You have to able to reason out the bits of truth in each and that is the hard part of it. Free your mind, that's the first and most important step.

[Oiled]

Never had much in the way of mind liberating experiences with people who tell me "free your mind..."

That said, I would agree that there is a lot of spun news out there that is, or borders on, propaganda.  But AP, Reuters, and NPR all do a decent job with straight news reporting (and clearly marking opinion). 

[Hairy Lime]

Quick FYI on "impartial" southfront dot org:

....In May 2020, ANNA News was banned from YouTube for violating its terms of service. It was revealed that employees of ANNA also worked for Russian propaganda websites news-front.info and southfront.org, and that NewsFront had raised money for ANNA in 2014. Both ANNA News and southfront.org support separatist forces in Ukraine....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANNA_News

Good lord, Capt Cargo.  You really are banking on the naivete you imagine exists here in the politics forum.

It's ALL propaganda Barton, don't be fooled. You have to able to reason out the bits of truth in each and that is the hard part of it. Free your mind, that's the first and most important step.

If you cannot distinguish between state sponsored deliberate propoganda and independent news sources with a point of you, you have a serious problem that makes everything you say suspect.

[kidcarter8]

Also, Russia has basically issued a veiled threat to France that it could be next if it doesn't shut up about economic sanctions on Russia.


They cant even fully attack Ukraine - you think they can handle France?

[LarryBnDC]

Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Funkadelic

[josh]

How else can you feel?! Young boys are thrown like cannon fodder, and most importantly for what?! For palaces in Gelendzhik?   

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukrainian-officials-upload-videos-of-captured-russian-soldiers-on-telegram

BTW, I will respond to assertions that western media are some monolith of fake news, as soon as evidence is provided.   Specify what is fake, state the source, show me your factcheck from a reputable independent factchecking organization (or a primary source), and I will take that specfic allegation of fakery seriously.  As for "some guy on YouTube said this," that's scraping the bottom of the barrel, so far as credibility is concerned.  Might as well SOTU.

https://southfront.org/war-in-ukraine-day-6-russia-changed-tactics-and-succeeded-huge-casualties-and-humanitarian-disaster-video-18/



We in the West have no clue to what is actually happening because our media is keeping it from us. Both sides lie, but the West has their population trained Pavlovian dog style.

What is it you think the population in Russia is? Free thinking and independent?!

They've been told it is a peacekeeping mission against a neo-Nazi administration that has been engaged in genocide against folks of Russian heritage. (Oddly enough, the same baloney about the Zelensky administration that a certain person in this group has repeated.)

The msm I have watched has been reporting about the super long line of incoming Russian vehicles and troops since it formed and discussed the implications of it and of likely increased bombing of cities similar to what Russia did in Grozny.

Yes, they've had guests on who have debated the likely effectiveness of those efforts and not all the so-called experts have agreed that the results are pre-ordained, the way you are sure they are.