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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[josh]

Ukraine is a non-nuclear state. They went from having the fourth most nuclear weapons to zero because they entered into a treaty where they destroyed them in exchange for a guarantee of non-agression from US and Russia.

Trusting either the US or Russia to keep to their "guarantees" was a predictable mistake.

I am not sure they did, but they surely had few options.

[josh]

I've said my piece and will comment no further here. But I urge you all to seek news outlets that are from different sources than the usual standard western news ilk.

God bless and I hope this war ends today. If not today then as soon as possible.

It's unfortunate that you are going to "hit and run," rather than continuing the dialog. You were asked a question about one of your assertions - "where are the Russians being murdered?"

But one of the things you have failed to address at all is that those sorts of murders are a major part of Putin's assertions of why he is attacking, yet he has not stopped at the area of Russian ethnics he said he was "liberating." Nor have his troops been welcomed as he told them they would be, not even in the east near the border.

How do we know this? Because the official state media from Russia is not showing any such scenes.

I am reminded of the promises the American people were made by their then President and his team about how our soldiers would be received in Iraq.

[josh]

Quick FYI on "impartial" southfront dot org:

....In May 2020, ANNA News was banned from YouTube for violating its terms of service. It was revealed that employees of ANNA also worked for Russian propaganda websites news-front.info and southfront.org, and that NewsFront had raised money for ANNA in 2014. Both ANNA News and southfront.org support separatist forces in Ukraine....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANNA_News

Good lord, Capt Cargo.  You really are banking on the naivete you imagine exists here in the politics forum.

It's ALL propaganda Barton, don't be fooled. You have to able to reason out the bits of truth in each and that is the hard part of it. Free your mind, that's the first and most important step.

His point is that using a citation from southfront to illustrate that we don't know the truth is absurd.

[Holly Martins]

 If he doesn't reply for a few days, I will take that as a concession that Southfront is not quite the trove of "bits of truth" he was suggesting.  Which is not to say that propaganda doesn't contain partial truth - indeed that's how it has its powerful effects.  But you can only spot the distortions by fact checking with other non-aligned and reputable sources.

OK, I pulled the spring arm back and smeared peanut butter on the release bar.

JK. 

[josh]

[luee]

I think CNN is doing the best job with onsite reporters. 4,000 dead civilians to now, women and children included. No dead media types as of yet. Mostly with banned cluster munitions and vacuum bombs hurled in the middle of busy squares. . Are they all lying?

[luee]

In Europe Poland in 1939. Facing the Nazi horde with men on horseback. The native Americans were mostly small groups hidden away far from settled areas with no planes or cluster weapons against.

[FlyingVProd]

A lot of the Native American Indians liked the French, and the Spaniards, and other immigrants, the ones the Native American Indians mostly had a problem with were the British.

When we went to war against England for our independence the Native American Indians helped the Americans against the British, and the Americans learned guerrilla warfare from the Indians. Before the Americans used to line up in fields out in the open like the British, but the Indians taught the Americans how to hide in the trees, and how to use camouflage, and how to hide and ambush the British. The Indians also helped the Americans against the British in the War of 1812. 

And then later a lot of stuff that the French Resistance did against Germany was stuff that they learned from the Native American Indians. 

I am happy to see the Seminole Tribe succeed, and the San Manuel Tribe, and other great tribes, I hope they all help each other, and I support helping the Native American Indians.

Salute,

Tony V.

[Holly Martins]

In Europe Poland in 1939. Facing the Nazi horde with men on horseback. The native Americans were mostly small groups hidden away far from settled areas with no planes or cluster weapons against.

Wow.  So the places where peoples like the Pawnee or Arapaho or the Navajo or the Pueblo or the Iroquois built permanent homes and raised crops and lived their lives....those weren't settled, then?  It's not a settled area unless the people are white? 

 

[Hairy Lime]

In Europe Poland in 1939. Facing the Nazi horde with men on horseback. The native Americans were mostly small groups hidden away far from settled areas with no planes or cluster weapons against.

The Belgians during the first month of World War I might provide another example

[Hairy Lime]

The damage Trump has done to the country since losing the 2020 election is incalculable, and has gotten worse:

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-un-ambassador-trump-big-lie-ukraine-invasion-2022-3

[josh]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60559403

Ukraine goes unmentioned by many GOP top officials at CPAC. "CPAC 2022: US conservatives show little interest in Ukraine"

[bambu.]

Ukraine is a non-nuclear state. They went from having the fourth most nuclear weapons to zero because they entered into a treaty where they destroyed them in exchange for a guarantee of non-agression from US and Russia.

Trusting either the US or Russia to keep to their "guarantees" was a predictable mistake.

Which is making some US allies very nervous.
bambu-ilk know that US guarantees made in the past are only as good as the policies of those occupying the White House in present time when decisions have to be made.
In other words, nothing is guaranteed.
Nothing.
Treaties, Alliances, promises, obviously only a 'maybe'.

[bambu.]

In Europe Poland in 1939. Facing the Nazi horde with men on horseback. The native Americans were mostly small groups hidden away far from settled areas with no planes or cluster weapons against.

Wow.  So the places where peoples like the Pawnee or Arapaho or the Navajo or the Pueblo or the Iroquois built permanent homes and raised crops and lived their lives....those weren't settled, then?  It's not a settled area unless the people are white? 

Seems to be.
Same deal in bambuland and elsewhere in the world.

[facilitatorn]

Bambu and Luee are always good for providing clear examples of how Putin and his fellow travelers do it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60559403

Ukraine goes unmentioned by many GOP top officials at CPAC. "CPAC 2022: US conservatives show little interest in Ukraine"

US conservatives are as usual counting on Russian money and cybercrime to stay afloat electorally.