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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[facilitatorn]

You are a really horrible freak, Bambu. I am glad you are in charge of exactly nothing.

[bambu.]

You are a really horrible freak, Bambu. I am glad you are in charge of exactly nothing.

Got a better idea?
*
Putin Russia is threatening to fire nuclear missiles.
China is threatening to invade Taiwan...has warships cruising along Australia's coastlines within sight of land, and is claiming ownership of the South China Sea.

What next?
Russia invading Alaska?...threatening to fire nukes if it is not allowed to do so without obstruction?

I get it, why Americans, who can defend themselves with nukes and civilian guns, wouldn't want to go to war with China over Taiwan, Australia, Japan or anywhere else.
Some people say China wants Taiwan for the semiconductors.

Are the Chinese warships looking for the best areas to land their millions of fearsome-looking troops in its invasion of Australia?
Foolishly, Australia signed up to nuclear non-proliferation treaties instead of arming itself with nukes...when it allowed Britain to test atomic bombs on its soil it should've demanded a better deal, one that included nukes for itself.
Now Australia is basically defenceless.

France, who "blew up" the South Pacific with atomic bomb tests, was not so foolish and is now nuke armed..."sitting pretty" if you like...while Australia is a nervous wreck, running around like a headless chook and trying to scramble some defences.

One tactic I would try is making the billionnaires, rich, "average Joe" folk in China and Russia understand exactly what would happen to them in a nuke war or conventional war.

[bambu.]

France has a short memory;

In Flanders Fields

    In Flanders Fields, the poppies blow
         Between the crosses, row on row,
       That mark our place; and in the sky
       The larks, still bravely singing, fly
    Scarce heard amid the guns below.

    We are the dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
       Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
                              In Flanders fields

    Take up our quarrel with the foe:
    To you from failing hands we throw
       The torch; be yours to hold it high.
       If ye break faith with us who die
    We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
                                In Flanders fields.

[Hairy Lime]

This is just some background reading on what some foreign policy experts are saying we should be thinking about, in terms of a possible escalation to war with either China or Russia.  About a ten minute read.  Among other things, it gets into what scenarios are likely if the US actually decided to give military support (direct action) to Taiwan, and how few living Americans have real experience of a world war and the levels of sacrifice and suffering it would involve. 

https://archive.ph/2022.12.02-155532/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/opinion/america-world-war-iii.html

(PW free screenshot)

Time for the West to write letters to The People of Russia and The People of China...

Vaguely reminded of a Peter Cook and Dudley Moore sketch where Cook claimed to have stopped WW II. From my memory.

PC: I was against it, you know.
DM: I think we all were.
PC: Yes, but I wrote a letter. Dear sirs. Stop it.
DM: Thank God you wrote.

[Oiled]

Har!  Sounds about right.  Sounds beyond the fringe ish.  Cook helped invent modern satire.


Meanwhile, the curse of the limited decision on wedding cakes returns.  Wonder if the conservative court will carve out some sort of niche that lets businesses narrowly define their services.

https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-entertainment-religion-race-and-ethnicity-discrimination-9f2a76e9c72b6e0dc2a513a968328799

[Espnthree]

Har!  Sounds about right.  Sounds beyond the fringe ish.  Cook helped invent modern satire.


Meanwhile, the curse of the limited decision on wedding cakes returns.  Wonder if the conservative court will carve out some sort of niche that lets businesses narrowly define their services.

https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-entertainment-religion-race-and-ethnicity-discrimination-9f2a76e9c72b6e0dc2a513a968328799

The case comes at a time when the court is dominated 6-3 by conservatives and following a series of cases in which the justices have sided with religious plaintiffs. It also comes as, across the street from the court, lawmakers in Congress are finalizing a landmark bill protecting same-sex marriage.

The whiny voices from the left object to the bill since it fails to Federally prohibit states from barring same sex or interracial marriages.
The bill most certain to pass will not force any state who bans these marriages ( none does) to change its law.The whole controversy is ridiculous since same sex and interracial marriages are ingrained parts of our culture
and will never go away.
In addition the Senate amended the bill with protections for religious liberty.

The Bill is a big deal for the politicians.
But the compromises and amendment speak more to the mood of the country. Much ado about nothing.

[facilitatorn]

Much ado about your stupid evil bigotry, Ward, and how it no longer has any place in our society.

[Oiled]

It is one of those secular v religious tensions that we seem stuck with, so long as some hold the religious belief that Gee Hovah won't sanctify a same sex marriage.  It's an idiotic theology, but it's theirs, and I can see how they lever that into refusing to provide a service to gay weddings.  What I don't see is why they can't just have their narrow and stupid belief and just offer a service to "Christian" weddings on some private contract basis and limp along in their resulting righteous poverty.  Meanwhile, public establishments will continue to have employees leave their theological beliefs at home and agree to come to work and serve everyone, in accord with their job description and the constitution. 

If you think pork is filthy and unholy due to religious belief, that doesn't mean you can turn away customers if you work behind the meat counter.  You either hand over the pork chops or you opt to work elsewhere. 

[Espnthree]

It is one of those secular v religious tensions that we seem stuck with, so long as some hold the religious belief that Gee Hovah won't sanctify a same sex marriage.  It's an idiotic theology, but it's theirs, and I can see how they lever that into refusing to provide a service to gay weddings.  What I don't see is why they can't just have their narrow and stupid belief and just offer a service to "Christian" weddings on some private contract basis and limp along in their resulting righteous poverty.  Meanwhile, public establishments will continue to have employees leave their theological beliefs at home and agree to come to work and serve everyone, in accord with their job description and the constitution. 

There is a distinction between an employee and the owner. The owner in these cases are designers of cakes, etc who have religious beliefs that conflict with, say, same sex marriage. They refuse to design a cake specifically for a same sex marriage, but will provide cakes off their shelves or bake a traditional cake.
They will also help the customer find an alternative baker for what they want.

If you think pork is filthy and unholy due to religious belief, that doesn't mean you can turn away customers if you work behind the meat counter.  You either hand over the pork chops or you opt to work elsewhere.

In the example of a butcher shop worker and pork, Judaism requires religious penalties for consuming certain meat. A Jewish meat store owner can refuse to offer pork products but that would not be a sound business practice. A Jewish clerk would never run afoul of the Talmud by selling pork chops.

If you lump all religious beliefs you do not like as idiotic, narrow, and stupid I would describe all of your knowledge of American history as lacking.

[Hairy Lime]

Pork products are not people. As long as a business does not discriminate in its services based upon the customer. If a deli chooses to not sell pork, it does not have to sell pork unless it determines who to sell the pork to based on an unlawful criteria.

[bambu.]

It is one of those secular v religious tensions that we seem stuck with, so long as some hold the religious belief that Gee Hovah won't sanctify a same sex marriage.  It's an idiotic theology, but it's theirs, and I can see how they lever that into refusing to provide a service to gay weddings.  What I don't see is why they can't just have their narrow and stupid belief and just offer a service to "Christian" weddings on some private contract basis and limp along in their resulting righteous poverty.  Meanwhile, public establishments will continue to have employees leave their theological beliefs at home and agree to come to work and serve everyone, in accord with their job description and the constitution. 

If you think pork is filthy and unholy due to religious belief, that doesn't mean you can turn away customers if you work behind the meat counter.  You either hand over the pork chops or you opt to work elsewhere.

Indeed.
But, I believe a business should have the right to not sell pig products in its meat section...if it so chooses.

A business should also be able to refuse to make a "same-sex wedding cake"/cake for a same sex wedding ...on religious grounds.
Surely anything else is just "Nazi Germany mk2".

[bambu.]

Indonesia has introduced jail terms for anyone having sex outside marriage.

[LarryB!]

Indonesia has introduced jail terms for anyone having sex outside marriage.

Good luck with that

[bambu.]

Indonesia has introduced jail terms for anyone having sex outside marriage.

Good luck with that

Indonesia is a "Muslim-majority country".

LGBTQI+  folk have it good in America.
In Iran they are put on death row then killed by the state in chambers of death.

No same sex wedding cakes...or same sex weddings for that matter...in Iran.

Just a pity really that Iran is not a "Christian country", Xi is not a Christian, and Putin is not a real Christian.

Nuke-capable bombers are lined up on the airfields in Russia, ready to give it to Ukraine bigtime...finish it off, obliterate it from Earth.

[LarryB!]

Meanwhile

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/06/world/europe/ukraine-drone-strikes-russian-bases.html