Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Question: What should be done to lower gas prices?
Allow drilling off shore and in Alaska
Allow drilling off shore, but not Alaska
Develop more oil from the lands the oil companies already have.
Take over Iraq and Iran
None of the above

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bankshot1
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« Reply #18600 on: April 23, 2018, 11:42:15 PM »

I get you’re upset by my perceived militancy, but Banks you can’t your personal insults against me on these racial discussions.


I can go back to our disagreement over Michael Sam not taking the deal for the documentary. You said he should have put his head down to make the team, I said once he came out before the draft and before he made the roster he was NOT GONNA MAKE ANY SQUAD.

That’s where my continued reference to “clueless and stupid” originates.

75% of white Americans had an unfavorable view of (hated) MLK and I was wrong because your family thought he was great.

You guys are pissed at me because I personalize the shit going on today, but you’re mad at me because I don’t make a point of saying, “Oh, no. Not you. You’re not like that.”

In my experience that’s not a compliment. When my white associates have said that to me I always wondered,
“If you have to tell me that, what do you say when I’m not here?’

I’m telling you what I think about our society, if I have to stroke you every time then you really have to ask why you take it personally?

I think enough about the people here to speak openly and honestly about how “I” see the world.

I guess that ain’t good enough.

Your militancy?
heh.

you're not militant.

You're angry and looking to blame people for your anger.

Knicks you never understood, despite repeated explanations, Sam had one job and that was to make the team, not a reslity TV show. Sam's sense of entitlement to bring a film crew to his job interview for his dreams job, was nuts.  What other rookie was so entitled to encroach on a team in that way, as a team was preparing for an upcoming season?

Answer: No one is.  It was manifestly a stupid idea and he got terrible advise. Oprah realized it almost immediately, and he finally realized it.

You never did.

Because you thought it was easy money.

Clueless.

And I sliced that 75% or whatever the MLK rating # was, to better reflect what northern white liberal and moderate adults with college educations, the white people you were more than likely to come into contact with growing up in NYC/LI, might have thought about MLK.

If we excluded the southern, midwestern, southwestern, rural non-college educated whites of the mid-60s from the poll, the MLK #s approval #s would have been higher.

But segmenting whites was something you weren't interested in, because its easier to see the whites as a monolithic bogey-man.

So please speak your mind, but fair warning, you may get pissed if someone else speaks theirs.

Thats the idea of a forum.



« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 11:46:36 PM by bankshot1 » Logged

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bankshot1
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« Reply #18601 on: April 23, 2018, 11:55:48 PM »

Fucking black people can't take responsibility for their words.
I,assume made in jest but that is the most Utley post I have read since I put him on ignore.

It was the set-up line for the soon to follow Knicksonian rejoinder, "well not all black people".

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« Reply #18602 on: April 24, 2018, 12:30:37 AM »

The wine country needs construction contractors, and construction workers, and if you join a union then you can make good money. I would like to see them bring in architects from Italy, Spain, and Greece, too. Napa, Santa Rosa, Sonoma, that whole area needs construction work done. 

And they need great landscapers too, and designers. They need outdoor water fountains and piazzas and all kinds of cool stuff.

Salute,

Tony V.
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« Reply #18603 on: April 24, 2018, 01:11:46 AM »

Ah yes..."bambu the bigot."

bigot Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bigot
bigot noun [ C ] us ? /?b??·?t/ a person who has strong, unreasonable ideas, esp. about race or religion, and who thinks anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong: Some of the townspeople are bigots who call foreigners terrible names.


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My ideas are reasonable.

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« Reply #18604 on: April 24, 2018, 02:31:51 AM »

I get you’re upset by my perceived militancy, but Banks you can’t your personal insults against me on these racial discussions.


I can go back to our disagreement over Michael Sam not taking the deal for the documentary. You said he should have put his head down to make the team, I said once he came out before the draft and before he made the roster he was NOT GONNA MAKE ANY SQUAD.

That’s where my continued reference to “clueless and stupid” originates.

75% of white Americans had an unfavorable view of (hated) MLK and I was wrong because your family thought he was great.

You guys are pissed at me because I personalize the shit going on today, but you’re mad at me because I don’t make a point of saying, “Oh, no. Not you. You’re not like that.”

In my experience that’s not a compliment. When my white associates have said that to me I always wondered,
“If you have to tell me that, what do you say when I’m not here?’

I’m telling you what I think about our society, if I have to stroke you every time then you really have to ask why you take it personally?

I think enough about the people here to speak openly and honestly about how “I” see the world.

I guess that ain’t good enough.

Your militancy?
heh.

you're not militant.

You're angry and looking to blame people for your anger.

Knicks you never understood, despite repeated explanations, Sam had one job and that was to make the team, not a reslity TV show. Sam's sense of entitlement to bring a film crew to his job interview for his dreams job, was nuts.  What other rookie was so entitled to encroach on a team in that way, as a team was preparing for an upcoming season?

Answer: No one is.  It was manifestly a stupid idea and he got terrible advise. Oprah realized it almost immediately, and he finally realized it.

You never did.

Because you thought it was easy money.

Clueless.

And I sliced that 75% or whatever the MLK rating # was, to better reflect what northern white liberal and moderate adults with college educations, the white people you were more than likely to come into contact with growing up in NYC/LI, might have thought about MLK.

If we excluded the southern, midwestern, southwestern, rural non-college educated whites of the mid-60s from the poll, the MLK #s approval #s would have been higher.

But segmenting whites was something you weren't interested in, because its easier to see the whites as a monolithic bogey-man.

So please speak your mind, but fair warning, you may get pissed if someone else speaks theirs.

Thats the idea of a forum.



For the umpteenth time he wasn’t going to make ANY TEAM. Where is he now? He should have taken the money and become the roving sports guy for the OWN Network. Or, if it was “his dream” to be in the NFL, (by the way, you repeatedly say the same thing, how the fuck do you know that?) he should kept his mouth shut, he should have stayed closeted until he made a roster. Round pegs do not fit in NFL square holes. How many NFL players who protested police brutality and criminal injustice are on teams?

And 75% is 75% no matter how you slice it. How do you ignore those segments of the country as part of the whole? What math class did you skip? Martin Luther King Jr said he never experienced the raw hatred in the South that he felt in Chicago. Wanna know where I got that? From the mouths of two horses.

Taylor Branch, who is the preeminent historian of the Civil Rights Movement, who I have had the pleasure of dining and conversing on several occasions, and John Lewis and you know who that is.

How do I know these guys? Hell, you know Utley has tried to doxx me but my online presence everywhere but here is my real name which is how I made a living. He keeps dropping little tidbits about you that piss me off because it just ain’t right whether or not it has any veracity. Your identity is yours.

Me, I’ve posted old articles from my years at Sojourners Magazine. That’s where I first met Branch and Rep. Lewis. John Lewis’ communications director is one of my oldest friends in DC but she and her sister (whose husband was Editor of the Crisis magazine - NAACP) goes back further with my wife to their school days at the National Cathedral School for Girls.

At the 50th Anniversay of the March on Washington I coordinated their media appearances as part of my contracted duties at NBC Washington. One of my former associates at Sojourners is Special Assistant to Elijah Cummings.

I don’t make shit up.

Jay Z ran a lyric about Jews being smart for investing in real estate, telling rap artists to not spend their money in strip clubs but buy property like Jews. Folks, that is an artistic exaggeration. Why weren’t you upset about his stereotypical “coon” images of black guys eating watermelon and shuffling around? By your logic shouldn’t that piss me off, too? Remember the title of that song? “The Story of OJ?” You think he was glorifying Simpson? You really think he was denigrating Jews when he’s telling the up and comers who to emulate?

But yes, I’m angry.

I could give you chapter and verse when I felt I might lose my life to cops, including the time in fall of 1988 when four Amityville Village patrol cars swooped into the deli parking lot onMerrick Road where I was talking to a friend of mine who was showing me her boyfriends new black and chrome Ford pickup. They rolled up on me, guns drawn, pushed me up spread eagle against her truck and frisked me at gunpoint.

After a thorough questioning, including asking my friend, “Why are you shaking, did he threaten you?” She said she was scared of them. They said among themselves there’s nothing here let’s go.

Through it all no one said shit to me except “you know what to do.” And I did.

I could have let it go but I drove to police HQ went inside and demanded to know what the fuck? The desk Sgt blanched, we’d known each other since kindergarten and our dads where on the 1940 league championship football team. He said that was you? Yeah, what the hell. They had gotten a call about a drug deal in progress in that parking lot. A wrong move and I could have died right there with a roast beef sandwich in my hand.

At the time was wearing a salmon end on end shirt, red braces, a grey chalk stripe and burgundy Mario Bruni’s. I was also Assistant to the Supervisor of the Town of Babylon, a patronage gig through the Suffolk County Democratic Party because I helped candidates get votes from the minority sections of the town.
But yeah, black guy talking to pretty white girl in the parking lot, must be a drug deal.

Goddamn right I’m angry.

I’m angry because my kid was snatched out of his bed by Chicago PD while his roommates did and said nothing. He got roughed up and My boy was dragged out his home in the winter in only his underwear iand placed in a car in handcuffs. Only then did the cops realize they were at the wrong address. He was only black man in the house with four other guys.

Imagine his emotions when he landed a role to portray a TSA cop on Chicago PD.

Last time someone called me a nigger to my face was Inauguration Night 2013.

Two camera ops had to get to National Airport and all the couriers were stuck in other parts of the city. I told the guys get ready and I picked them up from their hotel in my car. Coming through 23rd Street, NW breaking land speed records I see a guy standing in the middle of the street hollering at a cabbie. He’s walking across the street looking left nor right. I braked hard to miss him and yelled, “get out the street before you get killed.”

Kid, early 20s, blonde in a tuxedo with a green tie... I smelled the liquor as I eased past him... “Shut up, nigger!”

First instinct, get out and kick his ass. Reality? I’m then 55 years old with an artificial hip and spinal stenosis AND I’m on the clock and these guys have to get to their next assignment. Just keep gong.
The guys were stunned and very apologetic. “No worries, that wasn’t the first time.”

Nah, first time was 1964 when I was six years old and in the Red Cross swim program at Copiague Beach. After swim class my brother and I went into the snack bar for a Pepsi before we rode our bikes home. There were about fifteen twenty older kids in the snack bar while we waited.

Somebody yelled, “I smell a Gar!”

The response was, “A SEE GAR?”

“No, a NEE GAR!”

My brother was three years older, he grabbed my arm and said, “Let’s go,” Nah, I wanted a Pepsi. He made a face and said, hurry up. The chant went on and on. I get to the counter and my bro was fuming. I asked the soda jerk what was a NEE GAR.

He said, “You are.”

“What?”

“You’re a nigger.”

Bill said, “Let’s GO!”

Well I knew what nigger meant and all these teenage white guys were laughing and chanting and pointing and I thought, “They all hate me but they don’t even know me.”

Well that night at Washington Circle a kid in a tux on the night of the second inauguration of the first black president called me a nigger to my face. He was probably going to one of the balls.

I had felt the Blacklash to Obama long before, in fact I was in Dottie Lynch’s class at AU in 2009 (yeah, I went to grad school when I was fifty... ha! Strategic Communication, believe it or not) when our visiting speaker was Lynn Sweet who was going to be at the Obama presser on health care the next night.

Next night she asked the last question, what did the President think of his pal, Skip Gates getting arrested in his home in Cambridge.

Obama said the cops acted stupidly and where was the lie? Cop arrested a guy in his own house AFTER he knew the man was in his own house. The neighbor who called the cops did the right thing, I would my neighbor would do the same, but the cop arrested Gates only because he could and he would show this arrogant motherfucker who was boss.

Well, you know the firestorm which ended up with President of the United States, Commander in Chief of the US Forces, the most powerful military in the history of the world... drinking beer and eating shit with a Cambridge street cop.

Meanwhile, lost in all that shit was all the information imparted on the proposed ACA... and the GOP saw how they could cock block that uppity negro at almost every turn... appeal to the inherent racism of the nation, America’s Original Sin. I knew it was going to work because damn near every kid in that class, (90% twenty someth8ng white kids, mostly women) twisted themselves into pretzels trying to justify what the cop did. I asked them if their parents had given them the rules on how to SURVIVE encounters with the police. Amid much stuttering and stammering they were able to make up answers that would have gotten them killed in my experience. The late professor Lynch allowed me to unofficially run the conversation until the end of the class.

She told me... “He’s going to be re-elected but the nation is not on a good glide path. These students don’t understand they’re  supporting white supremacy.”

The President of the United States was elected on a platform of misogyny, xenophobia but be honest, mostly racism. He literally challenged the very existence of Barack Obama, he wasn’t born in America, no one had ever heard of him before not in college and not in law school.

And America bought it. “I Want My Country Back!” from who?

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.” Again, where is the lie?

Now, he wasn’t just The Other, he was a racist to boot!

Along comes Trump and he’s gonna “Make America Great Again!”

Again? You mean BNP? Before Nigger President?

You goddamned right I’m angry. You should angry too. Why aren’t you guys in here railing about the shit that went down in Georgia? Where the riot cops PROTECTED THE FUCKING NAZIS? Where the Nazis lit crosses and Swastikas? Where the president said there were “good people” on the side of the notherfuckers who murdered a woman in Charlottesville?

Why aren’t you furious 41% of Americans and 66% of millennials don’t know about Auschwitz?

I remember my pre-teens crying when I told them what the piles of shoes represent at the Holocaust Museum.

The look of shock on their adult faces when I showed them the group photo of the 2006 family reunion in Charleston (the whole family, black and white) we attended at the Middleton Plantation and pointed out a woman I’d met back in 1982, Depayne Middleton-Doctor.

Utley swore I was lying to get sympathy from... someone in here, after she was murdered by Dylan Roof.

I don’t make shit up.

I don’t have to.

But yeah, keep on painting me as a bigot if it makes you feel better.


« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 02:56:09 AM by NYKnicks12 » Logged
facilitatorn
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« Reply #18605 on: April 24, 2018, 06:31:29 AM »

I under appreciated how large the Gates bust and aftermath weighs in at least one man’s experience. I don’t doubt there are many more who took it and take it the very same way. It’s similar to how we just love ICE down here in San Diego.

Even talking about a boycott of Starbucks moved the conversation forward, which is not the same a resolving it, but is a step toward angels and away from whip crackers. I how they do a really outstanding job for those few hours in May. I hope it starts a viral reaction throughout the entire private sector. I hope to see state houses and city halls up their efforts as well. We can’t expect a damn thing except undermining American progress from the feds, or in states and cities where white supremacy still tops good sense at the ballot box.
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« Reply #18606 on: April 24, 2018, 09:43:17 AM »

Knicks,  I've always valued your postings, Sojourner articles,  etc.   If I haven't taken the trouble to rail against Trump's noxious bigotry,  it's only because others here have already made the point.  And sometimes I do rail.   Sometimes someone's post covers it pretty well,  but my time is short that day and we don't have Like buttons as some message boards do.  Doesn't mean I don't take your perspective with me as I go about my day,  maybe pass the torch along to others.   Your comments,  and soul searing experiences are relevant to the situation of Lakota people in my town,  and rarely a day passes that I am not mindful of the common threads of oppression that you and they must make way through.   
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BorisBartenov
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« Reply #18607 on: April 24, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »

From the Guardian coverage of the Toronto horror....


Quote
After the driver initially attempted to flee the scene, bystander video captured the tense standoff between police officers and the suspect, showing him waving a dark object in the direction of police. In the footage, a police officer can be heard telling the man to get down on the ground.

“Kill me,” he tells the lone officer. “I have a gun in my pocket.”

The officer warned him if he does not get on the ground, he will be shot. “Shoot me in the head,” he tells them. The officer then arrested the suspect without firing any shots.

This handling of a dangerous suspect should be put in the police academy textbooks in the US.   
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« Reply #18608 on: April 24, 2018, 10:25:02 AM »

Quote
But yeah, keep on painting me as a bigot if it makes you feel better.

Doesn't make me feel better, I just thought it was worth posting about.

And knicks if rationalizing your bigotry makes you feel better, as it evidently does, I suspect you will keep rationalizing it.

As to your non-rebuttals, you studiously avoided the salient points:

-Sam's misplaced sense of entitlement ahead of all others on the team, That he was or was not going to make the team is so far beyond irrelevant leads one to question your intelligence.  Sam was going to be Oprah's sideshow attraction and cheap reality TV programming. When she realized it was not going to happen, for reasons already explained to you, Sam's usefulness to her fell faster than his NFL career.

-your desire to maintain a monolithic white bogey-man, facts and analysis be damned.

-Jay'Z's use of an offensive sterotype is fine with you because investing in real estate is smart, and its a message to other rappers to avoid strip clubs. Really?

His offensive racial message was sold to millions of impressionable kids and is only a half-step away from " Jews control the international banks"  which fed anti-semitism for centuries, and could easily be seen as feeding anti-semitism to the next generation.

But you not by knicks. You don't see the obvious and condemn it, but rather you applaud it and rationalize it.  

and then you seque into strawmen arguments and your anecdotes which explain why you're angry and bigoted.

So keep on rationalizing your bigotry, as you will, and when the mood strikes, I'll call you out for it.

 


« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:43:52 AM by bankshot1 » Logged

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« Reply #18609 on: April 24, 2018, 11:41:51 AM »

Pointing out racism is indeed not anger,  Nor is it racism to point out others racist behavior.  Ascribing negative behavior and motives to individuals because of the color of their skin is, however, racism. By definition.    

Assuming you’re white and I’m black, what is the most likely result if I call the police on you because I’m annoyed?

Now reverse that situation... racism is prejudice WITH POWER.

I have no power over you beyond us being individuals, while you can exert power over me by becoming an extension of the State.

Caspice?
That's the Spike Lee argument: i.e. blacks can't be racists because they have no power. I capisce  and don't agree. But it allowed Spike the leeway to do some fine Jewish stereotypes in "Mo Better.."  But fair enough, you can define racism how you'd like. 

Not a fan of Spike Lee, but if you don’t see the difference in potential outcomes to the scenario above are you truly seeing the world around you?

Any black person ever get you fired because they “didn’t like your tone?” When you you answer that in the affirmative, get back to me.
So because that has not happened me, you are allowed to paint whites with same broad brush? Got it.

Yeah, because I can line up fifteen twenty people who may not have been fired directly they can trace leaving their positions to similar circumstances including co-workers, friends and relatives.

Shall I ask how many times you’ve been held at gunpoint by police and private security personnel?
Tell you what. We agree on my original point: the boycott won't work. All the other issues are yours alone. I don't need to be called a racist by a bigot.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/n/orthodox-jewish-man-attacked-in-brooklyn/vp-AAwcWFp

If a cop beat the shit out of an orthodox Jewish man because some black asshole didn’t like something he said or did and called said police your link would be germane.

true, it would be. but it is still germane, as it shows that racist behavior is not the exclusive nature of one race.

i think that is what some have tried to point out to you, and likely you agree, but it seems you'd rather not bring such a wide scope into the conversation as it disrupts what seems to be yoour preferred narrative.
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« Reply #18610 on: April 24, 2018, 11:43:57 AM »

What started this thread with me was not that I supported a boycott of Starbucks, I made clear that I didn’t believe it to be productive. However I do believe boycotts can be effective and it was pointed out the bus boycott was because it was fighting state sanctioned discrimination.

My point is it seems ANY white person can call the police on ANY black person and no matter how well you comply shit can go sideways and that person can be summarily executed by the State as was John Crawford III, Tamir Rice and the list goes on and on.

Therefore we’re still talking about state sanctioned discrimination. How pointing out that FACT makes ME a bigot is a big reason an idiot like Trump is now the leader of this nation.

Calling the police on Black women for golfing too slow is a thing. Am I bigoted for addressing this?

https://apnews.com/95e02521b2884a2abd1470fd9b6fecbb

you sure like to twist things around, don't you?

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« Reply #18611 on: April 24, 2018, 12:09:35 PM »

regarding the starbucks incident, i posted a thoughtful piece on it, yesterday, that posited how nearly everyone is wrong when they interpret that incident.

what i think is most worthy of your consideration is how the writer illustrates how quickly everyone is to launch their personal outrage machine, no matter which side of the circumstance their life experience(s) may push them towards.

i encourage all to read it. here it is again: http://www.phillyvoice.com/why-nearly-everybody-involved-starbucks-controversy-wrong/
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« Reply #18612 on: April 24, 2018, 12:18:54 PM »

Some days the sock puppetry is more obvious than others.  Just sayin', gents.  

Speaking of puppets....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2018/04/24/pruitt-to-unveil-controversial-transparency-rule-limiting-what-research-epa-can-use/

I don't hate Trump - I view him as incompetent and clueless and possibly in the early stages of dementia.  But Pruitt is a truly repellent and hateful turd - a deceitful and ignorant tool of polluting industries that would gladly ruin the planet and poison your children if it made their shareholders happy.  From the article:

Quote
Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt is expected to propose a rule Tuesday that would establish new standards for what science could be used in writing agency regulations, according to individuals briefed on the plan. It is a sweeping change long sought by conservatives.

The rule, which Pruitt has described in interviews with select media over the past month, would only allow EPA to consider studies for which the underlying data are made available publicly. Advocates describe this approach as an advance for transparency, but critics say it would effectively block the agency from relying on long-standing, landmark studies linking air pollution and pesticide exposure to harmful health effects.

Profound intellectual dishonesty.  
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« Reply #18613 on: April 24, 2018, 12:23:28 PM »

Well, because it is a special election, they consolidated polling places. As a result, I had to drive three times as far to vote as normal. Meaning it was, comparatively, a long way to vote for Tipirneni. A long way to go....
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« Reply #18614 on: April 24, 2018, 12:28:34 PM »

Ha! 

Consolidating voting places - that won't affect voters who don't drive or can't afford a car or are too busy with work to drive three times as far, will it?  I guess if that did affect demographics, it could cut both ways.  Ancient grannies and young minimum wage workers could both be somewhat thwarted. 
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