Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Question: Do you think the government should or should not spend the money that would be required for research and possible development of a defense system against nuclear missiles?
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Author Topic: National Security  (Read 159172 times)
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CaptainCargo
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« Reply #2010 on: February 23, 2016, 09:23:22 AM »

I'll answer that Josh with a question of my own. How many thousands of Italian and German Americans did they intern that were living on the East coast? If you take my meaning you have my answer. And yes, about 11,000 Germans were also interned but that was small small number in terms of percentage of overall German American population in relation to Japanese American.


Sidenote: I know the US officially apologized to those Japanese Americans, but did the apology include the German Americans interned too? I mean was the wording all-inclusive?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:46:54 AM by CaptainCargo » Logged

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kidcarter8
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« Reply #2011 on: February 23, 2016, 09:52:49 AM »

....and did they get any cash?
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josh
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« Reply #2012 on: February 24, 2016, 01:58:59 AM »

I'll answer that Josh with a question of my own. How many thousands of Italian and German Americans did they intern that were living on the East coast? If you take my meaning you have my answer. And yes, about 11,000 Germans were also interned but that was small small number in terms of percentage of overall German American population in relation to Japanese American.


Sidenote: I know the US officially apologized to those Japanese Americans, but did the apology include the German Americans interned too? I mean was the wording all-inclusive?



~1900 Italians, but no US citizens and almost no long term US residents.

An apology from the state of California in 2010 or so?

http://www.justice.gov/crt/Italian_Report.pdf
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As you said, about 11k Germans were interned - mostly German nationals. Mind you, it was the Germans' 2nd time being interned during war!

No apology for them.
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There were also the Texan camps for deportees from South America: Japanese, German, and Italian individuals.

And there was the U.S. internment of Jews, though not so many.

No apology there, either.
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« Reply #2013 on: March 12, 2016, 09:39:52 PM »

Hang on a minute...internment of Jews in America?
Crikey!
They were the ones being slaughtered in Europe by the Germans...tossed out of 3rd floor apartments over balconies...whether in wheelchairs or not...
...and tortured to death in concentration camps by the Germans.
Damn Germans, should've been 'enslaved' and their country taken over by the Allies after WW1...then there wouldn't have been WW2.
Gee, you couldn't win if you were a Jew, everyone seemed to persecute you.
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« Reply #2014 on: November 08, 2016, 11:18:22 AM »

The question is, Will this become the #1 topic of the post Election Autopsy?

I mean, fuckin' A! The Ruskies are absolutely in pop culture today. An the same people (or types of people) who used to want that the Beatles were a Commie Plot are now keyboard to keyboard with actual Russian agents working to disrupt the American culture.

Here is Ted Koppel warning that the Ruskies are targeting the electric grid while they're actually waging a much lower tech offensive! The nerd in me draws a direct line analogy to the Ewoks low tech attack on the Empire while our heroes attack the power plant that creates the shield.

Hillary has a particular sensitivity to this issue, and not for the first reason you might think of (that she managed to be the only person in the friggin government that didn't get hacked! ) but more for the position it put her in as SoS.

There she was, doing the diplomatic thing when all of a sudden the Military complex sprung a live wire! They had contracted with a company that hired a guy without a proper vetting, and then gave him WAY too much access to way too much of the information. Which he used to expose the internal workings of the Intel Apparatus.

First thing Hillary ought to do is offer asylum/amnesty to Snowden. He's ours and we ought to reunite him with the nation that he loves. Get him out from under Putin. It's something that Obama should have done right away. "OK, you beat us. Good job. Now, let's move forward."

So Hillary is now having to deal with Angelica Merkel finding out that we've been eavesdropping on her cell phone! Which means we're in all of her secret meetings (if her cell was with her) including seeing everything/everybody the camera pointed at!

And talk about a nation that needs to rethink it's national security! Germany! And that's just the one that I remember hearing about. If they could tap her phone, how about everyone else (Including Putin!)?

Hillary doesn't want her SoS to be in that situation. Nor does she want the NSA to stop doing it (at least to our enemies).

The cyber war is on like Donkey Kong! I want "Us" to win!

I want the entire IP paradigm to be re evaluated. For one thing, make the finger print impossible to evaporate. So that you can't hide from what you've done.
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Barton
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« Reply #2015 on: November 15, 2016, 11:56:44 AM »

Anything like an international ban/disabling of VPN and proxy server would have some side effects.  What about a woman living in hiding from an abusive husband (TRO doesn't always work) who needs to go online.  Or anyone who in some kind of seclusion for safety reasons?  What about people in totalitarian countries who drill their way through their country's firewalls through a VPN/proxy server, in order to be in contact with the outside world, express forbidden opinions, graze on forbidden content?  I have a friend in China for who I am very glad that their IP address doesn't lead to their door.  Sometimes hiding from authority is a good thing.

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« Reply #2016 on: November 16, 2016, 11:27:09 AM »

Anything like an international ban/disabling of VPN and proxy server would have some side effects.  What about a woman living in hiding from an abusive husband (TRO doesn't always work) who needs to go online.  Or anyone who in some kind of seclusion for safety reasons?  What about people in totalitarian countries who drill their way through their country's firewalls through a VPN/proxy server, in order to be in contact with the outside world, express forbidden opinions, graze on forbidden content?  I have a friend in China for who I am very glad that their IP address doesn't lead to their door.  Sometimes hiding from authority is a good thing.

Huh?

Way to couch the wolf of pessimism in an optimistic sheep's skin.

"It won't work!" "I'm agin' it!"

Because the people of China don't have the power to overthrow their government means that I have to have the Russians have a deleterious effect on the US election? Sorry, no!

Hacking is a world wide problem. An abusive spouse might be able to figure out where I live, is not a valid reason not to find the solution to the greater problem.

That's no different from the "Skittles" argument. We can't do something big because there might be micro consequences that we don't want.
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jm
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« Reply #2017 on: December 01, 2016, 08:39:16 PM »

Here's a nice little summary of the various other groups interned by the U.S. government during WW II.

"5 Surprises About America's Imprisoning People During World War II"

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-surprises-about-american-internment-during-world-war-ii-2015-1

Eleanor Roosevelt was reportedly the only person close to him who opposed what was going on, seeing it clearly motivated by war-time hysteria and bigotry.

Quote
[...] 4,058 Germans, 2,264 Japanese, and 288 Italians from 13 Latin American cou-ntries — and locked them up around the United States, many in a secret government internment camp located in Crystal City, Texas, an isolated desert town located at the southern tip of Texas, only 30 miles from the Mexican border. His reason? Roosevelt feared security threats from Germans and Japanese in Latin America.

Quote
Incredibly, among those taken from Latin America included a small number of Jews who had fled persecution in Germany. In his book "Nazis and Good Neighbors," Max Paul Friedman documented 81 Jews in Latin America who were part of the roundup. One Jewish family — the Jacobis from Columbia — was interned in the camp in Crystal City.

Similar, in ways, to American citizens who have been swept up in these Ice Raids and "deported" to nations they never knew. One of the people I read about was developmentally disabled, even. His mother was insane with worry, and they were looking for him all over this one area of Mexico where ICE basically just dumped him and left. But others, too, imprisoned, and not cognitively impaired - their stories not receiving much attention - and certainly no apologies - just sent out of the country.

One can easily see a Trump administration doing far worse. He doesn't even believe in the 14th Amendment (let alone being able to, or intent upon, protecting and upholding the COTUS) - as he declares that people who burn flags should be "stripped of citizenship."
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jm
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« Reply #2018 on: December 01, 2016, 09:10:46 PM »

Agree with gist of your post #1. Dems sorta cut off their noses to spite their face with the persecution of these journalists, culminating with Assange's own private little war waged, holed up inside the Equadorian Embassy.

Haven't followed this matter closely, but Barrett Brown just got out. And he'll do interviews (MSM hasn't been contacting him).

With Assange, though, this has reached strange heights; one gets the impression Equador put this nice educated chap in a room, gave cafeteria privileges and Lady Gaga visitation rights, after which, left him alone with 3 Am hall roaming privileges, a kitten, eventually realizing how far outta hand this was getting .. ultimately, Julian Assange winding up a tool of the Republican Party (arch enemies, even, of the Equadorian government), while contradicting his own assertions about journalistic neutrality (clearly this had gotten "personal") desperately meddling in U.S. elections and affecting outcome (though how significantly, we don't know).

Point being, if the Obama administration had stayed true to its initially stated quest (or initially shared assumptions - whether Obama admits it or not), there's a lot of blips and bleeps on the terrain which we wouldn't now be dealing with.

But hey - this is the man who "got" Osama Bin Laden. Republicans were and remain thoroughly unable to be up to such tasks.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:23:53 PM by jm » Logged

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jm
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« Reply #2019 on: January 12, 2017, 03:30:13 AM »



https://twitter.com/trueblacknews/status/819033331178360836

https://youtu.be/NLqCACwUsAQ
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Barton
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« Reply #2020 on: January 31, 2017, 02:29:56 PM »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/opinion/president-bannon.html

Asks hard questions about this loony promotion of Herr Bannon.
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bambu
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« Reply #2021 on: March 11, 2017, 10:58:47 AM »

Here's a nice little summary of the various other groups interned by the U.S. government during WW II.

"5 Surprises About America's Imprisoning People During World War II"

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-surprises-about-american-internment-during-world-war-ii-2015-1

Eleanor Roosevelt was reportedly the only person close to him who opposed what was going on, seeing it clearly motivated by war-time hysteria and bigotry.

Quote
[...] 4,058 Germans, 2,264 Japanese, and 288 Italians from 13 Latin American cou-ntries — and locked them up around the United States, many in a secret government internment camp located in Crystal City, Texas, an isolated desert town located at the southern tip of Texas, only 30 miles from the Mexican border. His reason? Roosevelt feared security threats from Germans and Japanese in Latin America.

Quote
Incredibly, among those taken from Latin America included a small number of Jews who had fled persecution in Germany. In his book "Nazis and Good Neighbors," Max Paul Friedman documented 81 Jews in Latin America who were part of the roundup. One Jewish family — the Jacobis from Columbia — was interned in the camp in Crystal City.

Similar, in ways, to American citizens who have been swept up in these Ice Raids and "deported" to nations they never knew. One of the people I read about was developmentally disabled, even. His mother was insane with worry, and they were looking for him all over this one area of Mexico where ICE basically just dumped him and left. But others, too, imprisoned, and not cognitively impaired - their stories not receiving much attention - and certainly no apologies - just sent out of the country.

One can easily see a Trump administration doing far worse. He doesn't even believe in the 14th Amendment (let alone being able to, or intent upon, protecting and upholding the COTUS) - as he declares that people who burn flags should be "stripped of citizenship."


war-time hysteria and bigotry?

It was war, long ago.
Wanna blame someone...blame Japan and Germany, they and the willing populations in them were the ones committing all the barbaric torture-murder/beheading atrocities.
US govt was just trying to protect its people from harm.
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« Reply #2022 on: March 11, 2017, 11:36:52 AM »

OK, here's a headline in the fake facts rag, the NYT, today:

"Flynn Was Paid to Represent Turkey During Campaign"

Look, how bad is this?  Thanksgiving was coming.  The turkey knew its number was up.  Flynn's a good guy.  Caring about his client!  Now they say that's bad?  NOT NICE.



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FlyingVProd
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« Reply #2023 on: August 04, 2017, 09:08:05 PM »

We need to improve the way that we detect IEDs. Soldiers are getting their legs blown off, and arms blown off, and faces blown off, and we need to reduce the number of injured American troops. Dogs help, and making vehicles safer helps, but we must come up with better ways to detect IEDs.

Salute,

Tony V.
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bambu
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« Reply #2024 on: August 05, 2017, 05:25:33 PM »

We need to improve the way that we detect IEDs. Soldiers are getting their legs blown off, and arms blown off, and faces blown off, and we need to reduce the number of injured American troops. Dogs help, and making vehicles safer helps, but we must come up with better ways to detect IEDs.

Salute,

Tony V.

Indeed.
Now Islamic State and its band of merry terrorists are making them out of sausage mincers and trying t blow up planes in Australia, according to the agencies/cops.
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