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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1596072 times)

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14100 on: May 22, 2019, 08:35:58 AM »

Good stuff.  It's unfortunate that Amash is contemplating leaving the GOP to become a Libertarian.....GOP could certainly benefit from a non-sheep member.   



Regarding McGahn...

Imagine if Obama or Clinton had mused about witness tampering.  You're spot on re the national numbness to painful levels of perfidy.

Cohen testified to Congress that Jay Sekulow, a lawyer for our "President" acting in his interests, instructed him to lie in his testimony about the timing of the Moscow Tower negotiations.  That is one step removed from the President directly tampering with witness testimony, on an issue that is central to their investigation of Russian interference in our elections.

And the news covered it for what, a day?  Half of one?  And what has Congress's response been to that testimony?

Almost every single day there are new revelations that would be bombshells in any other administration.  We've become numb to it.  Our Democracy is dying by a thousand cuts (more like gashes) and its becoming increasingly clear that the Democrats elected to protect it aren't up to the task.

GOP covered Trump’s ass for two years but because he ain’t out the door in five months of Democratic control of one half of one branch the Dems ain’t up to the job?

Trump and Co. are under attack on multiple fronts:

House committee investigations, NYAG, SDNY and NYS legislature etc.

Trump and the GOP are toast, it’s a matter of WHEN and not IF.

It’s up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib in the meantime.

Democrats are losing the narrative.  By seeming to rule out impeachment so quickly, they gave the impression that there weren't impeachable actions that would form the basis of an inquiry.  Trump has been worse than Nixon.  You wouldn't know it listening to Pelosi.  You need to read a Republican House member's tweets to get that.

There have been other things as well...why the fuck did it take them so long to formally demand the tax returns?  Should have been a day one ask.  And they have played directly into Trump's delay game.  And why does AG Barr sitting so pretty in his job that he can weaponize the DOJ without repercussions?

It is up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib.  This is why in 2018 they elected Democrats by overwhelming margins; to conduct robust oversight of Trump & co.  I don't think that is what we are seeing them do.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14101 on: May 22, 2019, 08:55:51 AM »



Not bullshit.  REDSTATEWARD isn't capable of backing his statements with fact, and his motivation for the post is to poke eyes, and make snide comments about the horse race on the Democratic side.
Then I will repeat it for you.



Bernie  Sanders says we need  more regulations on existing charter schools and a moratorium on federal funding for new ones.

‘The proliferation of charter schools has disproportionately affected communities of color.”

True ,but for the better not to the detriment of black kids.
 
What Bernie doesn’t get  was reflected in a in a poll released earlier this month by Democrats for Education Reform, 58% of black party primary voters expressed a favorable view of charter schools, while 31% opposed them. Among Hispanics, the breakdown was similar—52% to 30%.
But among white Democratic primary voters, only 26% supported charters, while 62% viewed them unfavorably. The same divide exists if the question substitutes vouchers for charter schools.

Consider the close Florida Governor’s race where democrat candidate, Andrew Gillum, campaigned on closing charters and ending a tax-credit program that allows underprivileged kids to attend private schools. He lost to republican Ron DeSantis, who supported school choice.

According to the  James Madison Institute, a state think tank, it was the backing of tens of thousands of black school-choice supporters that helped put Mr. DeSantis over the top.

Remember that  Obama’s education secretaries, Arne Duncan and John King, were vocal proponents of charter schools who now have been succeeded by an even stronger school-choice proponnent , Betsy DeVos.

Bernie Sanders was far from a darling of black voters in 2016.
His views on school choice won’t help him with black voters in 2020.


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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14102 on: May 22, 2019, 09:14:15 AM »

Good stuff.  It's unfortunate that Amash is contemplating leaving the GOP to become a Libertarian.....GOP could certainly benefit from a non-sheep member.   



Regarding McGahn...

Imagine if Obama or Clinton had mused about witness tampering.  You're spot on re the national numbness to painful levels of perfidy.

Cohen testified to Congress that Jay Sekulow, a lawyer for our "President" acting in his interests, instructed him to lie in his testimony about the timing of the Moscow Tower negotiations.  That is one step removed from the President directly tampering with witness testimony, on an issue that is central to their investigation of Russian interference in our elections.

And the news covered it for what, a day?  Half of one?  And what has Congress's response been to that testimony?

Almost every single day there are new revelations that would be bombshells in any other administration.  We've become numb to it.  Our Democracy is dying by a thousand cuts (more like gashes) and its becoming increasingly clear that the Democrats elected to protect it aren't up to the task.

GOP covered Trump’s ass for two years but because he ain’t out the door in five months of Democratic control of one half of one branch the Dems ain’t up to the job?

Trump and Co. are under attack on multiple fronts:

House committee investigations, NYAG, SDNY and NYS legislature etc.

Trump and the GOP are toast, it’s a matter of WHEN and not IF.

It’s up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib in the meantime.

Democrats are losing the narrative.  By seeming to rule out impeachment so quickly, they gave the impression that there weren't impeachable actions that would form the basis of an inquiry.  Trump has been worse than Nixon.  You wouldn't know it listening to Pelosi.  You need to read a Republican House member's tweets to get that.

There have been other things as well...why the fuck did it take them so long to formally demand the tax returns?  Should have been a day one ask.  And they have played directly into Trump's delay game.  And why does AG Barr sitting so pretty in his job that he can weaponize the DOJ without repercussions?

It is up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib.  This is why in 2018 they elected Democrats by overwhelming margins; to conduct robust oversight of Trump & co.  I don't think that is what we are seeing them do.


They were also elected in great numbers to put the brakes on the GOP agenda and as long as McConnell runs the Senate the only real thing they can do is halt the flow of money from the House.

There are at least 20 investigative hearings going on right now, unfortunately the majority of the nation is NOT howling for impeachment and that means the squishy white moderate and the media are not the friends of the Democrats. Meanwhile the financials are coming from NYS, and the NYAG as well as Ways and Means. He is gonna lose in the courts and while stealing that SCOTUS seat to kill RvW was a major coup for the GOP there is no fucking way his lawsuits against the accounting firm and the banks will prevail over the subpoenas.

Impeachment is INEVITABLE getting there without Middle of the Road White People and the media giving cover to Trumps bullshit blustering obstruction tactics. Previous experience should tell us this.

Right now this is not an ‘Animal House’ where we’re just the guys do make some ‘stupid and futile gesture’ because we have nothing to lose nor or we in the place where the Democrats must “DO SOMETHING!”

It’s all there A, B, C, D, E... It’s all laid out, there is only so much stonewalling the Trump group can do and as far as playing out the clock the longer this goes the worse PR for President and they are running out of rope.

No need for a Pickett’s Charge this is more like the old adage about the two bulls standing on a hill looking down at the herd. The younger bull excitedly exclaims, “Let’s run down there and fuck some of those cows!” The older bull laconically replied, “Let’s walk down there and fuck them all.”
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson

Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14103 on: May 22, 2019, 09:39:32 AM »

Well this (relatively) Middle of the Road white person believes that impeachment and inevitable acquittal will make serve to make Trump both a martyr and emboldened to believe that he can be even more draconian.  I also believe it will ensure his re-election.  And while being "right" and moral is always important, in politics "winning" also plays a role.

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"Can you deny, there's nothing greater, nothing more than the travelling hands of time?"-Jay Farrar

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14104 on: May 22, 2019, 10:18:46 AM »

Heh. Do you think the article you posted supports Carlson's no doubt well-researched assertion?

That "Fearmonger" was atop the title could have been a clue. 

Luee never disappoints.

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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14105 on: May 22, 2019, 10:28:55 AM »

Quote
   It is up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib.  This is why in 2018 they elected Democrats by overwhelming margins; to conduct robust oversight of Trump & co.  I don't think that is what we are seeing them do... 

And never will.  We elected politicians, not moral philosophers.  The calculation running in all of their noggins is how to not martyr Trump (as Oily amd YG have both pointed out), but look like they're containing the dumpster fire while staying focused on new legislation. 
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14106 on: May 22, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »

Quote
   It is up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib.  This is why in 2018 they elected Democrats by overwhelming margins; to conduct robust oversight of Trump & co.  I don't think that is what we are seeing them do... 

And never will.  We elected politicians, not moral philosophers.  The calculation running in all of their noggins is how to not martyr Trump (as Oily amd YG have both pointed out), but look like they're containing the dumpster fire while staying focused on new legislation.

Sorry, but where is the thinking coming from that Trump will have the good faith to not declare himself a martyr regardless?  What has he done thus far that would make us think that anything he declares will have anything to do with what Democrats are actually doing?

If this is the argument we go with then we have been effectively manipulated by Trump's "Presidential Harassment!" which was always an attempt to scare off Democratic oversight.  So you are saying that should work?  I don't agree. 

Trump will mobilize his voters one way or another (as he did in 2018 with the caravan scare tactics.)  Democrats should mobilize their voters via the robust oversight they were elected to do.  A majority of Americans, a significant majority, want an end to Trumpism.  Yet here we are, squirreled away making our political calculations, while Trump proudly declares Democrats the "traitors."

If we don't stand up against Trump's attacks on our Democracy, we are.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14107 on: May 22, 2019, 11:35:31 AM »

Well this (relatively) Middle of the Road white person believes that impeachment and inevitable acquittal will make serve to make Trump both a martyr and emboldened to believe that he can be even more draconian.  I also believe it will ensure his re-election.  And while being "right" and moral is always important, in politics "winning" also plays a role.

This isn't some vague concept of what is right or what is moral.  This is about the hard democratic and Constitutional requirement that there be checks and balances.  We give up oversight of the Executive, then we declare any future President, Democrat or Republican, above those checks and balances.

Worse, politically, you know future Republicans will not be as cowed as Democrats currently are.  So effectively you set up a system where Republican Presidents can act with impunity, while a Democrat needs to play by the rules (or even when he/she plays by the rules, Republicans will claim they aren't.)
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14108 on: May 22, 2019, 12:50:37 PM »


  This is about the hard democratic and Constitutional requirement that there be checks and balances.  We give up oversight of the Executive, then we declare any future President, Democrat or Republican, above those checks and balances.
It is also a Constitutional Requirement (separation of powers) that a President cannot be compelled to appear before Congress nor can his intimate advisors..  Conversations between the President and his staff are covered by executive privilege. Since  Don McGahn and Robert Mueller were both employees of the Justice Department whatever they discussed in the Russian Investigation is off limits to the Oversight Committees.And, besides, most  of what McGahn told Mueller is in Mueller's report.
If the democrats want to pursue Impeachment that's their call.  But McGahn has every legal right to ignore any subpoena and can't be held in contempt for refusing to appear.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 01:23:08 PM by REDSTATEWARD »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14109 on: May 22, 2019, 12:53:17 PM »

I guess it was a "vague concept" to Needs

Heh
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14110 on: May 22, 2019, 01:00:50 PM »

Quote
   It is up to the citizens to keep the GOP from burning down the crib.  This is why in 2018 they elected Democrats by overwhelming margins; to conduct robust oversight of Trump & co.  I don't think that is what we are seeing them do... 

And never will.  We elected politicians, not moral philosophers.  The calculation running in all of their noggins is how to not martyr Trump (as Oily amd YG have both pointed out), but look like they're containing the dumpster fire while staying focused on new legislation.

Sorry, but where is the thinking coming from that Trump will have the good faith to not declare himself a martyr regardless?  What has he done thus far that would make us think that anything he declares will have anything to do with what Democrats are actually doing?

If this is the argument we go with then we have been effectively manipulated by Trump's "Presidential Harassment!" which was always an attempt to scare off Democratic oversight.  So you are saying that should work?  I don't agree. 



I'm not saying it should work, I'm saying it will work.  You've buttressed my point:  Trump already does a good job of portraying himself as a victim of wicked partisan witch hunters.   Americans are getting stupider and more gullible and more narrow in their knowledge, which is what the corporations who sell them stuff, especially electronic gadgets, want.  Trump knows how to be the loudest mouth in cyberspace, he knows how to manipulate in short bursts of message that fit the attention span of the average resident of the Digital Age, and we will soon have a dictatorship backed by oligarchs.  When they install a social credit system like China has, a few of the cyber zombies will wake up and see what has happened.  Thanks to 24/7 video surveillance on every corner and through every device down to smart electric shavers, they will all be quickly dealt with.* 

Your posts are principled, smart, and evidence someone who is not nearly as afraid as he should be.  Or maybe you are, and I just don't see fear's dark shadow lurking behind the radiant idealism of your comments here. 

What to do?  May I suggest every single Independent who doesn't want Trump, should immediately register as a Republican if they are in a state with closed primaries and VOTE FOR BILL WELD.  Weld is probably a decent and dedicated public servant, which means his electability, compared to Trump's, is nearly zero.  By voting for Weld, that 40% of registered voters will give the primary to Weld, and the 2020 general election to Warren/Booker** or whoever.  Or, with the Independents sticking with him, Weld would win which, after Trump, would still be like Second Coming.  And democracy can begin to heal.



* It's fucking snowing here, on May 22nd, we've had a solid week without sun, and I'm in kind of a shit mood, so I may disown that pessimistic first paragraph in a day or two.

** how cool would it be if the ticket were Eliz Warren and Tonya Harding, and could be referred to as Warren/Harding?  "Skate into the future!"

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oilcan

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14111 on: May 22, 2019, 01:22:23 PM »

Meanwhile, the effluvium rising from the administration just gets thicker....

Quote
Washington (CNN) -- President Donald Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen had more than 1,000 contacts with a Russian-linked company, evidence that special counsel Robert Mueller used to quickly intensify his investigation, according to newly unsealed court records.
Mueller was appointed in 2017 to investigate Russian interference in US politics, and the new documents show how Cohen gave Mueller plenty of reasons to aggressively investigate him. That's because Cohen initiated many of his contacts with foreign companies immediately after the 2016 presidential election, and started taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from foreign sources.
The special counsel obtained five search warrants before handing the Cohen investigation over to federal prosecutors in Manhattan. Those warrants were unsealed Wednesday by a federal court in Washington, DC, after CNN and other media outlets sued to make the records public.
The details of Mueller's early work were disclosed as Trump and Attorney General William Barr set their sights on the origins of the Russia investigation. Barr has questioned the legitimacy of how the probe started, while Trump has called it an "illegal" and even "treasonous" endeavor.

But the documents describe how investigators were learning of new and concerning actions, tying Trump's closest associates to powerful Russian interests, even after Trump was elected....

And most citizens couldn't care less about all this.  Their minds are on healthcare, immigration, and affording to have a roof over their heads.  What they forget is that no matter how tasty the fruit looks, if it's dangling from a poison tree, it will be poisoned fruit.  Corrupt leaders tend to produce corrupt legislatures and courts and agencies. 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14112 on: May 22, 2019, 01:32:15 PM »

https://twitter.com/Cocoa_Bean10/status/1130963605808177152

Pelosi to her underlings: "Did anyone die at the border today?  Let me know ASAP."
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14113 on: May 22, 2019, 02:17:12 PM »

In the near future this guy is gonna meltdown live on TV and it will be epic.

The walls are closing in and by the time this is done GOP Senators will be trying to pull the Sgt. Schulz defense.

This thing is gain8ng it’s own momentum and the only way Trump gets to play martyr is if the Democrats listen to the folks screaming, “DO SOMETHING!”

His staff preplanned today and only marks and schmucks will fall for it... that covers media and Middle of the Roaders. I’ll never forget the crazy backlash to Paul Wellstone’s memorial service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiYoYy84nBU
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #14114 on: May 22, 2019, 02:19:07 PM »

Meanwhile, the effluvium rising from the administration just gets thicker....

Quote
Washington (CNN) -- President Donald Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen had more than 1,000 contacts with a Russian-linked company, evidence that special counsel Robert Mueller used to quickly intensify his investigation, according to newly unsealed court records.
Mueller was appointed in 2017 to investigate Russian interference in US politics, and the new documents show how Cohen gave Mueller plenty of reasons to aggressively investigate him. That's because Cohen initiated many of his contacts with foreign companies immediately after the 2016 presidential election, and started taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from foreign sources.
The special counsel obtained five search warrants before handing the Cohen investigation over to federal prosecutors in Manhattan. Those warrants were unsealed Wednesday by a federal court in Washington, DC, after CNN and other media outlets sued to make the records public.
The details of Mueller's early work were disclosed as Trump and Attorney General William Barr set their sights on the origins of the Russia investigation. Barr has questioned the legitimacy of how the probe started, while Trump has called it an "illegal" and even "treasonous" endeavor.

But the documents describe how investigators were learning of new and concerning actions, tying Trump's closest associates to powerful Russian interests, even after Trump was elected....

And most citizens couldn't care less about all this.  Their minds are on healthcare, immigration, and affording to have a roof over their heads.  What they forget is that no matter how tasty the fruit looks, if it's dangling from a poison tree, it will be poisoned fruit.  Corrupt leaders tend to produce corrupt legislatures and courts and agencies.

And while the Trump craziness continues the Dems have to be out calling for, “Healthcare, fair wages and no babies in cages.”
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson
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