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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[NeedsAdjustments]

So Kash Patel, at the time a Nunes staffer, was feeding the "president" Ukraine info, so much so that Trump thought he was the NSC pint man on Ukraine (when in fact Vindeman is.)  And we also know that indicted associate of Giuliani Lev Patel was setting up meetings in Europe for Nunes and his staffers so that they may conduct their bogus "investigation" into the origins of the FBI's investigations of Russia and Trump Campaign connections.

Seems like Nunes, as he sits in judgment of the "kangaroo court" that is trying to get to the bottom of these Ukraine matters, isa  fact witness to some of these issues, and may have an interest in as much staying uncovered as possible.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Ben and The Don, two peas in a pod:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/21/world/middleeast/netanyahu-corruption-indicted.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[kiidcarter8]

and what led Sondland to that opinion?  Good luck with your research.

You really think Trump has no care of the Ukraine?

Barton?

[barton]

and what led Sondland to that opinion?  Good luck with your research.

You really think Trump has no care of the Ukraine?

Barton?

You think he does, outside of what they could have provided him for 2020 and the Russia-fed conspiracy theories he could use to absolve Putin of 2016 interference?

The guy who has had by his count 20 direct conversations with the "president" has an opinion on how he feels on the subject.  You refute that opinion with what, exactly?

I thought that reply from N.A. answered it pretty well.  I think my suggestion to do research was so you could get at those salient points - that Trump appointed a friend and non-diplomat friend, Sondland, and had many conversations with him on the subject.  And that Trump viewed Ukraine as opposed to his presidency, and subscribed to a baseless theory that they were in actual conspiracy against him.  (versus the reality that many citizens in Ukraine, as would be their right, spoke out in favor of Hillary Clinton for the simple and super-fucking-obvious reason that she proposed a hard-line stance against Russia, it's occupation of the Crimea, and its gross violations of international law.   Clinton indicated to Ukraine how strongly she supported them; Trump, not so much.)

[LarryBnDC]

and what led Sondland to that opinion?  Good luck with your research.

You really think Trump has no care of the Ukraine?

Barton?

Trump gives two shits for no one but Trump.

[NeedsAdjustments]

and what led Sondland to that opinion?  Good luck with your research.

You really think Trump has no care of the Ukraine?

Barton?

You think he does, outside of what they could have provided him for 2020 and the Russia-fed conspiracy theories he could use to absolve Putin of 2016 interference?

The guy who has had by his count 20 direct conversations with the "president" has an opinion on how he feels on the subject.  You refute that opinion with what, exactly?

I thought that reply from N.A. answered it pretty well.  I think my suggestion to do research was so you could get at those salient points - that Trump appointed a friend and non-diplomat friend, Sondland, and had many conversations with him on the subject.  And that Trump viewed Ukraine as opposed to his presidency, and subscribed to a baseless theory that they were in actual conspiracy against him.  (versus the reality that many citizens in Ukraine, as would be their right, spoke out in favor of Hillary Clinton for the simple and super-fucking-obvious reason that she proposed a hard-line stance against Russia, it's occupation of the Crimea, and its gross violations of international law.   Clinton indicated to Ukraine how strongly she supported them; Trump, not so much.)

Simpler answer: If Trump cared about Ukraine, he sure had a funny way to show it.

Holding on to valuable military aid for months with little explanation while their soldier die, no communication about a supposed concern with their corruption, holding up a direct meeting with their President until they help Trump's re-election efforts, having them negotiate with his personal "lawyer" rather than giving them the respect of above-board diplomatic channels...

Why the fuck would anyone think Trump cared about what happened to Ukraine?

[NeedsAdjustments]

Re: our conversation about Nunes' lies, here is an excellent piece on the "universe of untruth" that is sustaining support for Trump and, it should be argued, got him elected in the first place:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/devin-nunes-attack-press-misguided/602347/

The accusations against Trump are direct and intelligible to any open mind. The defense of Trump resembles the Star Wars saga: a universe of storytelling, in multiple parts, much of it comprehensible only if you venture beyond the visual franchise to a huge appendix of fan fiction and Wikipedia pages.

The House Republicans’ underlying argument is too jumbled and confusing even to be agreed with. It can only be absorbed. It is to be repeated, not to be analyzed. It is not even really an argument at all. It is a hypnotic litany, a creed of faith—a faith all the more compelling for defying sense and experience. 

I can't imagine there is a more accurate and descriptive way to describe Nunes' opening statements out there.

[facilitatorn]

Why the fuck would anyone think Trump cared about what happened to the United States?

These hearing make it clear that only the cheapest hoods rise in the republican party.

As for research, Fox ran a segment recommending viewers never look anything up. They say research leads to splitting headaches and uncontrollable crying jags.

As a Fox acolyte in good standing, Kiid won’t be looking anything up any time soon. His head is firmly lodged in his ass, lest any light get in.

[kiidcarter8]

Barton - do you really think Trump cares not what happens in/to the Ukraine?

[bodiddley]

Trump gives two shits for no one but Trump.

John Cleese referred to Trump as "an extreme caricature of an asshole" noting that Trump is only concerned about himself.

[kiidcarter8]

Barton - do you really think Trump cares not what happens in/to the Ukraine?

You're just LOST, aren't you?

[facilitatorn]

Barton - do you really think Trump cares not what happens in/to the Ukraine?

You're just LOST, aren't you?

The poster you are replying to is definitely LOST and has been for some time. Good of you to notice. If it’s any consolation, no one here takes him seriously at all.

[barton]

Haha.

No idea what you're blathering about, KC.  I answered yes in multiple ways, and indicated agreement with others like NA, who also answered yes.  As I said, I accept the opinion of Sondland, based on his many conversations with potus.  The testimony of Holmes supported further.   Trump's interactions with Putin further support the view that he cares little for Ukraine.  As does his deliberate witholding of critically needed aid to hold back Russian aggression in Donbass province in order to coerce a personal political favor.   And, finally, his deep outrage that some Ukraine officials courted Clinton because she looked, in 2016, to be the probable winner and was very supportive of Ukraine's sovereignty.    While Trump, during his campaign, expressed zero interest in Ukraine except as a scapegoat for what Russia was actually doing. 

And in 2016, Trump suggested he might, as president, give U.S. recognition to Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea. "I'm going to take a look at it," Trump said. "But you know, the people of Crimea, from what I've heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also." 

Yeah, SO weird that Ukrainians weren't stoked about a possible Trump presidency! 

[kiidcarter8]

So Trump would care not if Russia took control of Ukraine?

You jest.

[barton]

So Trump would care not if Russia took control of Ukraine?

You jest.

He has openly stated his lack of support for the return of Crimea, which was basically stolen by a bogus referendum (done while Russian troops occupied the peninsula, and the Tatars were boycotting it).  As I just pointed out, look at what Trump said about Crimea.   Look at how sanguine Trump was about witholding military aid for Ukraine until he was caught doing it.   Count the number of times Trump has called Ukraine one of the world's most corrupt nations, then contrast with how many times he's said that about Russia or North Korea.   

Trump always puts Russia first, always paints their aggression and thuggery in the best possible light.   Wake up.   If Trump could find a political path to handing Vlad the keys to Kyiv, with a coupon for free pissing prostitutes, he would do it.