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The vaccine for the novel coronavirus should be

available to all Americans
- 4 (100%)
available only to Americans who can afford $3000 or whose insurance covers it
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: March 04, 2020, 12:32:27 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 340977 times)

Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24420 on: December 04, 2019, 01:46:06 PM »

As one whose Student Loan debt exceeds the Gross National Product of many nations, I would happily accept loan forgiveness.  At the same time, I don't think it's the world's greatest idea.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24421 on: December 04, 2019, 01:56:52 PM »

Not sure what Booker stood for or advocated.
His why-can't-we-all-get-along shtick and shying away from negativity seemed to read the national mood wrong.  I think he was trying to mimic  Obama in a post-Obama era after Obama's centrist, work-together message proved unrealistic.  Obama got bamboozled over and over.  The GOP was never going to work with Obama, but it took him 7 years to figure that out.

Otherwise, I think the US isn't likely to vote for another black president so soon, despite or maybe because of the current racial polarization.  Realistically, black and female was two strikes on Kamala from the get-go.

After being mayor of Newark, rising star Cory Booker T had to persuade the wealthy donor class and NJ voters in general that he wasn't some urban radical, but a respectable politician.  Newark is a complicated place in the Jersey psyche.  It's the largest city in a suburban state.  It's also been something of a war zone, ghetto, crime-pit, source of fear for a long time.  There's been some success improving Newark with development, sport teams, a few big businesses (Prudential, major NJ law firms, etc).
Booker took some chances as mayor of Newark and was willing to try anything that might work.  But he had to distance himself somewhat from the specter of Newark to become senator. 

But cycling back, I have no idea why Booker ran/is running for president, except that it's the next rung on the ladder for an ambitious politician who has become a senator.  And once you are senator from NJ, you're there forever, much like CA.  In Senate terms, NJ is largely a one party state.  And it's real tough to defeat a sitting senator in a primary.   Even sleazy scandals haven't derailed creepy Menendez (D-NJ) who was re-elected last go while under indictment.

Recycling back, what I saw of Booker in the campaign, he seemed lightweight.  I was disappointed he didn't seem to have much to offer or a strategy to get whatever message out.   

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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24422 on: December 04, 2019, 02:03:49 PM »

Even more more to the point, Trump's actions are impeachable before even getting into the aid.  Pressuring a foreign government to interfere in the 2020 election is clear abuse of power.  Withholding normal relations and a White House visit until they perform specific acts that constitute said interference is Quid Pro Quo/Extortion.  Covering up the actions that pointed to the above Obstruction of Justice.

That aid to an ally at war voted on by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress was involved in that extortion attempt ma make the action only more egregious, but the impeachment bar has already been cleared.

Yep. Yep. Yep.  And Yep.
Sondland who was directing a fair amount of the dubious deal said straight out that the WH visit phone call were part of a Q pro Q, contingent on the Ukraine Prez announcing an investigation intended to hurt Biden and help Trump's re-election.

It's only logical that $400M in military aid was also withheld to amp up the pressure.  And there's a good deal of evidence to that effect.  Not to mention the evidence/witnesses withheld which could further shore up the case.

BTW, here's the full 300 page House committee document on impeachment: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6566093-House-impeachment-report-PDF.html
I haven't had time to go through more than the intro yet.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24423 on: December 04, 2019, 02:06:18 PM »

Just try and imagine how you would respond if Obama had withheld aid from an ally, struggling to fend off Russian incursion, in order to get them to supply dirt on Mitt Romney? 


I said SIMPLY withholding the aid, with nothing given in return.

This is where you say, "No.".
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24424 on: December 04, 2019, 02:10:40 PM »

Again, SIMPLY withholding aid granted by Congress would violate Trump's constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws, would be an abuse of power, and WOULD be impeachable. 

SIMPLY. 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24425 on: December 04, 2019, 02:14:54 PM »

Do you think the simple withholding of the aid is impeachable, oilcan?

Yes.  Of course. This has all been adequately demonstrated and explained here.  Just try and imagine how you would respond if Obama had withheld aid from an ally, struggling to fend off Russian incursion, in order to get them to supply dirt on Mitt Romney?  And then instructed officials to refuse to release pertinent documents, in order to cover up his actions?  If you wish to reduce the bias and prejudice in the world, you must start with your own self.
Even more to the point, I would think that  "simple withholding" of aid approved by Congress would be a clear violation of the President's duty to faithfully execute the laws.

Haven't other nations had aid withheld?

Law says aid needs to be released before end of fiscal year, doesnt it?
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24426 on: December 04, 2019, 02:16:27 PM »

I mean, Booker wanted to get some visibility, but he's never been all that much of a contender - mayors rarely get far when they go direct to running for POTUS.  I doubt even Bloomberg, though his city is nearly nation-sized in people, and though he's got billions, will get that far.  I like that Cory said he was big on affordable housing and had some cool ideas for it, but pretty much anyone who's been a mayor rubs up against the affordable housing issue in a close and personal way, so that's just a given.  Mayors are probably the real frontline when it comes to battling wrestling with developers and NIMBY snobs who have no interest in real affordable housing.  When it comes to housing, that old phrase "all politics is local," really resonates.

Booker has been a US Senator for a bit...

Bo and O-Can don't know Corey too well.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24427 on: December 04, 2019, 02:16:37 PM »

You asked a question about SIMPLY withholding aid and now you're qualifying it. Do you know what the law says?  Why don't you look it up and report back.  It's likely more than 280 characters, though.  So take your time.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24428 on: December 04, 2019, 02:36:12 PM »

I will believe what I have heard.  It is not unlawful to do what Trump did - to withhold minus the allegations of bribery or whatever you are calling it today.  Like I said, many other nations have had aid withheld.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24429 on: December 04, 2019, 02:39:30 PM »

So a President can SIMPLY choose to not follow a law.  Got it.  Who told you that?
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24430 on: December 04, 2019, 02:41:02 PM »

I will believe what I have heard.  It is not unlawful to do what Trump did - to withhold minus the allegations of bribery or whatever you are calling it today.  Like I said, many other nations have had aid withheld.

Oh bullshit!

Funds are withheld to make a client nation come into compliance, not to do so for political or personal gain.
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24431 on: December 04, 2019, 02:43:28 PM »

FUCK GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

https://t.co/mbamduGXGD?amp=1
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24432 on: December 04, 2019, 02:55:39 PM »

I will believe what I have heard.  It is not unlawful to do what Trump did - to withhold minus the allegations of bribery or whatever you are calling it today.

Then you believe something that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.  Whether or not he had the right to withhold the aid (which is questionable) it can not be separated from the allegation of bribery (which is what the Constitution calls it)

It is not unlawful for Trump to grant pardons.  He has a pretty absolute right to do that.  It is unlawful for him to grant someone a pardon if they pay him $1 million.  The lawfulness/unlawfulness of the quo in the quid pro quo isn't at issue.

Like I said, many other nations have had aid withheld.

“Many?”  You have the stats on that?

It has on occasion happened that funds are withheld.  On those occasions questions are asked, like why?  When that question is asked, the President is supposed to have an answer.  And that answer is supposed to relate either to our interests, or those of an ally. 

Even by those standards alone the withholding of the Ukraine aid is problematic.   Ukraine asked the question.   People in the OMB asked the question.  Even Mitch fucking McConnell asked the question.  And no one got an answer.

Actually, amend that.  The answer to that question was made clear to Ukraine. 

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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24433 on: December 04, 2019, 02:59:25 PM »

FUCK GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

https://t.co/mbamduGXGD?amp=1
I guess he no longer has any of the money from GoFundMe account Kid set up for him.
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24434 on: December 04, 2019, 03:05:01 PM »

Not sure what Booker stood for or advocated.

I think watching his debate performances would have helped.  They were good. 

This is a fun exercise too, that might prove instructional:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/

His why-can't-we-all-get-along shtick and shying away from negativity seemed to read the national mood wrong.

Biden has the same schtick.  Even more so, in fact.  Booker has no illusions that as soon as Trump is gone his buddy Republicans will work with him. 

Difference is perceived electability and as you say, the perception may be that a black man isn't as electable.  And that's a big problem when the whole point of being a moderate is supposed to be electability, and you are up against the white male VP for a popular President.

Booker not the only moderate in the field struggling to be heard over that.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020
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