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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2063607 times)

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35925 on: June 01, 2020, 02:10:34 PM »

Most police do not report the abuses of their fellow officers or interrupt them when they are doing something questionable.

How do you know this?

By the lack of reports of abuses and by watching videos in which a police officer is doing something objectionable and the others around them are not recorded as either speaking up or requesting assistance from higher up.

Police disciplinary records are public record in a dozen states. There is limited accessibility in 15 more. In 23 states, they are totally obscured from the public.

But we have case after case in which there has been broad corruption in a department, with no complaints filed or actions taken. In some cases, like Baltimore's, where there has been widespread corruption, the disciplinary actions and related information was secret, until the courts demanded the information.

In Massachusetts, the records are also secret, but with exceptions. So, we can't see disciplinary action, but we can often see complaints against an officer and internal affairs investigations. It is the lack of the latter in the face of the former that can be especially damning.

Up until 2015, Missouri had a similar standard to Maryland's, but a court ruling determined that an individual officer has no privacy interest in misconduct committed while they were working, so suddenly a ton of information became available.

Minnesota holds all such information to be public, which is why we so swiftly learned of the prior issues that ex-officer Chauvin had and the failure of him to be held accountable for it.



We also see it in various scenarios in which one person will direct the others to turn off their bodycams and the others in the crew will do so, without question. Nor do they turn them back on during the moments of questionable (or criminal) wrongdoing.
All of this still doesn't get you to "most" engaging in that behavior.

Really?

If it isn't most, then we get a ton more reports than we get, Yank.

We don't have Baltimore where the rank and file were silent. We don't have scene after scene after scene in which Officer A is doing something awful while Officers B, C, and D are keeping the bystanders back instead of any of them trying to stop Officer A.

We have scenes in which Officer Q tells others to turn off their bodycams and Officers R, S, and/or T indicate they should not be doing that or refusing to do so.


We don't get those scenes, Yank! That's not what happens.

How can you argue that it is not most? How many examples in which a regular officer has turned in another are you aware of? Are you claiming that somehow none of the other police know what's going on?!
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35926 on: June 01, 2020, 02:12:50 PM »

Can Terrance Floyd get through to AntiFa?

Will we see less looting today?  More peace?

Stirring vigil in Minneapolis. 

Chants of Lock Up All Four and One Down Three to Go may go unheeded - but hopefully not all the words will.

ANTIFA?

Really? You sucker.


“He politicized intelligence. We shouldn’t be surprised by it, but we should be disturbed that the whole truth is not getting out about all the groups that pose a threat because that goes toward whether or not law enforcement will take effective action against all groups that are violent and be allowed to take such action,

Frank Figluzzi

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/05/bill-barr-slammed-by-ex-fbi-official-for-ignoring-the-right-wing-boogaloo-bois-infiltrating-protests/
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:22:56 PM by LarryBnDC »
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35927 on: June 01, 2020, 02:16:20 PM »

Yank knows decent cops.   Impossible to boil these matters down to percentages.   So it's better to constructively target codes of silence, rather than put people in stereotypical slots.   Which makes top-down policy changes in PDs essential. 

Though policy would not have saved Floyd.  Chauvin was in violation of his department's rules for handling suspects.   Which means culture change,  psych screens,  etc.   Expect delays.   Those fixes might be cheaper than building a new police station every time something like last week happens.
I've got no problem with any of that.

Policy might have saved Floyd, because Chauvin would not have been where he was, doing what he was doing, based on his past actions, with different policies.

Respect for life among the other officers might have saved Floyd, because they would have spoken up to Floyd or even physically intervened to prevent that death. There was no need to kneel on Floyd's neck for 7 minutes to keep him under control. They said nothing to Floyd that anybody has heard or reported. They did nothing to stop it that anybody has seen or reported.

Is your position that most other officers would have spoken up or done something? If so, on what basis. Three out of three (at least) were complicit. Further, the press conference given that night demonstrated cover-up, not honesty, about what happened.

This is the norm, not the exception.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35928 on: June 01, 2020, 02:17:53 PM »

So... maybe my words of optimism were misplaced.




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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35929 on: June 01, 2020, 02:20:29 PM »

The problem is the vast amount of indifference in the middle and the ridiculous levels unions go to protect terrible police.


As with the military, police forces do try to save cops - keep them on the force - WHEN ABLE.  There are certain instances where the unions cannot offer an out.  And like with many other walks of life - all police union heads/unions in general are not created equal.  Minneapolis sure seems to have needed some refining.  This is not up for debate.

We need soldiers.  We need firemen - and officers.  We (collectively) try to make them better, through experience, through guidance (yes, good cops leading young ones to NOT go astray).  Know this - bottles and bricks and tree limbs are being thrown at GOOD COPS.  GOOD COPS are having their cars/SUVs destroyed.  GOOD COPS are out there this week saving lives.  Arresting people, being forceful at times as well, yes.  That is the job.

PEACE in Minneapolis.  Peace in New York.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35930 on: June 01, 2020, 02:24:26 PM »

ANTIFA?

Really?



As Ms Blackburn stated - if you organized it, expect a knock at your door.  Biden supporters can pay the bail - they cannot buy verdicts

This Trump (and I would be willing to guess - BIDEN) vs AntiFa war is just beginning.  And long coming.  And please - save the What Abouts - we all know there is a faction on the other side as well.  One muddy rock at a time.

That this will run concurrently with the Floyd's quest for justice is hopefully something we can all be ok with.  A guilty verdict for disgraced Officer Chauvin is a goal for me and a very high percentage of my republican brethren.  Don't doubt this.  We may not be in the thick of that issue moving forward.  But are on your side nevertheless.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:44:32 PM by kiidcarter8 »
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35931 on: June 01, 2020, 02:30:18 PM »

The problem is the vast amount of indifference in the middle and the ridiculous levels unions go to protect terrible police.


As with the military, police forces do try to save cops - keep them on the force - WHEN ABLE.  There are certain instances where the unions cannot offer an out.  And like with many other walks of life - all police union heads/unions in general are not created equal.  Minneapolis sure seems to have needed some refining.  This is not up for debate.

We need soldiers.  We need firemen - and officers.  We (collectively) try to make them better, through experience, through guidance (yes, good cops leading young ones to NOT go astray).  Know this - bottles and bricks and tree limbs are being thrown at GOOD COPS.  GOOD COPS are having their cars/SUVs destroyed.  GOOD COPS are out there this week saving lives.  Arresting people, being forceful at times as well, yes.  That is the job.

PEACE in Minneapolis.  Peace in New York.

FUCK THA POLICE (and I drew a check from NYPD for damn near a year!)

I keep telling y’all what I live and what you speculate.

Fuck the police comin' straight from the underground
A young nigga got it bad 'cause I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority
Fuck that shit, 'cause I ain't the one
For a punk motherfucker with a badge and a gun
To be beatin' on, and thrown in jail
We can go toe to toe in the middle of a cell
Fuckin' with me 'cause I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin' my car, lookin' for the product
Thinkin' every nigga is sellin' narcotics
You'd rather see, me in the pen
Than me and Lorenzo rollin' in a Benz-o
Beat a police out of shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still gettin' swoll off bread and water
I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down, and grabbin' his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin' out for the white cop


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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35932 on: June 01, 2020, 02:31:26 PM »

How can you argue that it is not most? How many examples in which a regular officer has turned in another are you aware of? Are you claiming that somehow none of the other police know what's going on?!

How can you get that from what I'm saying?

I have a hard time assigning group think (which is why I perpetually jump on Kid's "you guys, you all" posts).  The mere fact that you assign group think to a group you don't particularly like doesn't make it any more accurate.  I recognize there are plenty of bad police who do all sorts of terrible things all the time.  I don't think it's fair or right to say that most act badly and don't report those that do.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:33:00 PM by Yankguy1 »
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35933 on: June 01, 2020, 02:31:42 PM »

This is a month and a half old, but it's really about 11 years old. In involved an entire task force. Did they somehow carefully select the only corrupt police in Baltimore for their group?! Seems a tad unlikely.

It especially seems unlikely when you look at other events in Baltimore in which groups of officers were involved in criminal enterprises over the last decade and a bit.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-gttf-rivera-charged-20200415-rntnu3xkzvavrg6b5xsmv2ck3q-story.html

15th Baltimore Police officer charged in Gun Trace Task Force corruption fallout

Quote
The charges are the latest in the long-running federal corruption probe that started with a 2015 wiretap investigation of a drug crew in Northeast Baltimore by suburban police officers. Investigators began looking into a city police officer affiliated with the crew, and broadened the case to his entire unit, the Gun Trace Task Force, who were found to be robbing citizens, conducting illegal searches and collecting fraudulent overtime pay.

The takedown of those officers has led to several years of probing into historic corruption.

The 2009 cocaine seizure is the oldest incident to result in charges. At the time, the Police Department billed the bust as the largest in the agency’s history without federal assistance. The department spread the drugs out on a table for the media, and later gave the officers an award for their efforts.

Three kilograms of cocaine were missing, federal prosecutors now say.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35934 on: June 01, 2020, 02:39:25 PM »

America... you’ve had your chances..

“The poll, released this week, showed that white Americans of all ages disapprove of the protests by a margin of 63 percent to 30 percent. Hispanic Americans disapprove of the protests by a smaller margin, 45 percent to 36 percent.

However, black Americans of all ages approve of the protests 74 percent to 17 percent.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests-poll-finds
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35935 on: June 01, 2020, 02:45:14 PM »

One of things that pissed me off to no end over the years is when white guys try to rationalize why
I shouldn’t have an outsized amount of fear and low amount of respect for police.

My respect for the cops I know and have worked with is waaaaay overshadowed by the amount of fear, pain and humiliation I’ve personally experienced.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 02:57:16 PM by LarryBnDC »
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35936 on: June 01, 2020, 02:46:10 PM »

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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bankshot1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35937 on: June 01, 2020, 02:50:03 PM »

America... you’ve had your chances..

“The poll, released this week, showed that white Americans of all ages disapprove of the protests by a margin of 63 percent to 30 percent. Hispanic Americans disapprove of the protests by a smaller margin, 45 percent to 36 percent.

However, black Americans of all ages approve of the protests 74 percent to 17 percent.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-americans-disapprove-national-anthem-protests-poll-finds

Knicks given the time(s) do you not think your post is a little misleading and could be misunderstood?

A poll released this week about protests?

Come on.

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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35938 on: June 01, 2020, 02:50:57 PM »

One of things that pissed me off to no end over the years is when white guys try to rationalize why
I should have an outsized amount of fear and low amount of respect for police.

My respect for the cops I know and have worked with is waaaaay overshadowed by the amount of fear, pain and humiliation I’ve personally experienced.

But most of the time you are OK with them.   Even respecting some of the work they do.

Not unlike most of us.

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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #35939 on: June 01, 2020, 02:56:07 PM »

ANTIFA?

Really?



As Ms Blackburn stated - if you organized it, expect a knock at your door.  Biden supporters can pay the bail - they cannot buy verdicts

This Trump (and I would be willing to guess - BIDEN) vs AntiFa war is just beginning.  And long coming.  And please - save the What Abouts - we all know there is a faction on the other side as well.  One muddy rock at a time.

That this will run concurrently with the Floyd's quest for justice is hopefully something we can all be ok with.  A guilty verdict for disgraced Officer Chauvin is a goal for me and a very high percentage of my republican brethren.  Don't doubt this.  We may not be in the thick of that issue moving forward.  But are on your side nevertheless.

Fuck off.

ANTIFA is a bogeyman. A bunch of middle class white kids from the burbs who will grow up to be middle class dads with carefully groomed beards who reminisce about the good old days of protesting the MAN.

Hell, some of the guys ahead of me in high school were big anti war activists and are now Republican dickheads like you, so spare me your shit.

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