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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2096153 times)

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61050 on: December 25, 2020, 10:37:26 PM »

If only we had New Zeland’s quality of leadership.

We had to learn the hard way a crooked ruling party does our nation no good.

Permanent minority status for all republicans is the only way forward and out of the multifaceted messes of trumpism.

Nah, what you need is ScoMo style leadership....not NZ style leadership, it's too cosy with China....and far too leftist.

So what if NZ's leadership has been working better than Australia's!

NZ is a country town, compared to Australia.
Half the size of a postage stamp...I could run it.

Candidate for the 2020-2021 Dunning Kruger Award is our Bambu.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61051 on: December 26, 2020, 12:49:40 AM »

March 21, the Shanghai lockdown was gradually lifted.  I've been playing basketball in a gym twice a week since March 23.  First two weeks, folks were mildly nervous, one guy wore a mask for 3 weeks.

I haven't worn a mask for 6 months (except for one bus ride, a handful of subway trips and visits to my friends at the hospital -- as all of those gov't entities require masks).

It's telling that some of you can't even imagine a country eliminating transmission and being virus free.  As I've said since the pandemic started, we know how respiratory viruses spread, so stopping transmission isn't that difficult.  Fairly strict lockdowns -- curtailing movement and interactions with others -- combined with mask wearing and contact tracing can stop viral transmission.   Not just reduce, but stop. 

In Shanghai, restaurants and bars are filled, crowds on the streets.  Still roughly 25% of the people wear masks to be safe and careful.  There's still a lot of vigilance.  Hospitals test every patient for CV; doctors and nurses get tested every 3 months or so.

If there were virus spreading in Shanghai?China, all the full restaurants, bars, crowded streets, low mask usage, basketball and other sports  would result in a huge outbreak.  Hasn't happened.  Because domestic viral transmission was eliminated. 


As for US returnees from China/Europe?
I probably would have double quarantined them.
10 days in a guarded hotel before letting them on planes.  Another 10 days after arriving in the US.  You just don't allow movement from a virus hotspot to your country.  You play it extra safe, and test them depending how good and available the tests were back then.


No one answered my question on which is preferable:
1) a strong two month lockdown with all business closed except food, medical and public transport followed by a 2 month gradual reopening -- life back to normal, economy fully open thereafter with few deaths and illnesses
or
2) economic disruption and high death and illness toll for 10 months and still ongoing?
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61052 on: December 26, 2020, 01:19:59 AM »

Dr. Fauci:
I really don't get this guy.  Is he a political appointee or a scientist?
Does he know the difference?

Quote
Despite initially saying herd immunity could be reached at between 60 to 70 percent, Fauci believes it may now take closer to 90 percent in order for life to return to normal. 
Quote
He said he didn't reveal his higher estimates publicly weeks ago because he feared Americans were hesitant about taking the COVID-19 vaccine.

'When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,' Fauci told the New York Times. 'Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85.

'We need to have some humility here. We really don't know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I'm not going to say 90 percent.'

Why mislead people?
Present the best science there is.
If it's a range, provide the range.
Tell people that a minimum 70% need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, if that's what the best models depict.

Why substitute his judgment about people's behavior for the truth.  Hell, maybe telling people it might take up to 90% vaccination rate to stop the virus might get more people to get inoculated instead of relying on other people to reach societal safety.

A scientist and health official shouldn't tell people info that they don't believe is true.  Fauci lied about masks and now he's been deceptive about the needed vaccination rate.  Why should anyone believe this guy.  He hurts trust in health officials and guidelines.  Biden should retire this 80 year old patronizing hack.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61053 on: December 26, 2020, 01:31:24 AM »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-stocks-have-banner-year-gaining-nearly-5-trillion-11608892204

Gee, sure is nice to have no virus and your economy fully functioning for the last 8-months while most other countries struggle...
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61054 on: December 26, 2020, 01:35:32 AM »

Taking pot shots at Australia is one of the hallmarks of good governance.

The place is a dump and Australians smell funny and have a marked propensity toward theft and squalor.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61055 on: December 26, 2020, 02:04:41 AM »

No one answered my question on which is preferable:
1) a strong two month lockdown with all business closed except food, medical and public transport followed by a 2 month gradual reopening -- life back to normal, economy fully open thereafter with few deaths and illnesses
or
2) economic disruption and high death and illness toll for 10 months and still ongoing?

That's because your question isn't sincere and the only people likely to answer (2) are even less sincere.
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61056 on: December 26, 2020, 02:13:20 AM »

March 21, the Shanghai lockdown was gradually lifted.  I've been playing basketball in a gym twice a week since March 23.  First two weeks, folks were mildly nervous, one guy wore a mask for 3 weeks.

I haven't worn a mask for 6 months (except for one bus ride, a handful of subway trips and visits to my friends at the hospital -- as all of those gov't entities require masks).

It's telling that some of you can't even imagine a country eliminating transmission and being virus free.  As I've said since the pandemic started, we know how respiratory viruses spread, so stopping transmission isn't that difficult.  Fairly strict lockdowns -- curtailing movement and interactions with others -- combined with mask wearing and contact tracing can stop viral transmission.   Not just reduce, but stop. 

In Shanghai, restaurants and bars are filled, crowds on the streets.  Still roughly 25% of the people wear masks to be safe and careful.  There's still a lot of vigilance.  Hospitals test every patient for CV; doctors and nurses get tested every 3 months or so.

If there were virus spreading in Shanghai?China, all the full restaurants, bars, crowded streets, low mask usage, basketball and other sports  would result in a huge outbreak.  Hasn't happened.  Because domestic viral transmission was eliminated. 


As for US returnees from China/Europe?
I probably would have double quarantined them.
10 days in a guarded hotel before letting them on planes.  Another 10 days after arriving in the US.  You just don't allow movement from a virus hotspot to your country.  You play it extra safe, and test them depending how good and available the tests were back then.


No one answered my question on which is preferable:
1) a strong two month lockdown with all business closed except food, medical and public transport followed by a 2 month gradual reopening -- life back to normal, economy fully open thereafter with few deaths and illnesses
or
2) economic disruption and high death and illness toll for 10 months and still ongoing?

1)
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61057 on: December 26, 2020, 02:43:55 AM »

Vaccine in March 2021 in bambuland.
Now today the war has started...the vaccinated v  the non-vaccinated.
The pro-vaxxers v the anti-vaxxers.
Employers are wondering where they stand in the war. Can they refuse employment to anyone not vaccinated? Can they sack anyone who refuses to be vaccinated?     The questions they are asking.
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61058 on: December 26, 2020, 03:09:14 AM »

Taking pot shots at Australia is one of the hallmarks of good governance.

The place is a dump and Australians smell funny and have a marked propensity toward theft and squalor.

LOL
A nice dump though...universal healthcare free for the poor, pensioners, unemployed etc.
Unemployment welfare benefit now $800FN tax free...plus rent assistance if needed.
Free car registration for pensioners.
Enough to support a "waltzing matilda" (swag/bedroll/backpack) ...walking or van lifestyle.
Good weather for it. Plenty of beaches to camp on...
Camp on a new beach every day, it would take 27 years.  Then you could go around again.

Boss lady was hurling barbs about refugees...only to discover the "she" was only taking 20 per annum...lol
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 03:14:40 AM by bambu. »
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61059 on: December 26, 2020, 03:25:19 AM »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-stocks-have-banner-year-gaining-nearly-5-trillion-11608892204

Gee, sure is nice to have no virus and your economy fully functioning for the last 8-months while most other countries struggle...

According to YouTube videos China is fast running out of US dollars, it's exports are down dramatically, electricity is being rationed, and its paper tail is on fire.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61060 on: December 26, 2020, 04:31:30 AM »

According to YouTube videos...

And as soon as I get to that phrase, everything else you say has zero credibility.

Cite real things, Bambu. We may disagree with them, but at least there is something solid with which to disagree.

Also on youtube:
China set to conquer India

Youtube thinks China is going to invade everybody... but that everybody wants to invade them, too.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61061 on: December 26, 2020, 07:29:03 AM »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-stocks-have-banner-year-gaining-nearly-5-trillion-11608892204

Gee, sure is nice to have no virus and your economy fully functioning for the last 8-months while most other countries struggle...

According to YouTube videos China is fast running out of US dollars, it's exports are down dramatically, electricity is being rationed, and its paper tail is on fire.

Exports are down for the year because
1) China was shut down for nearly 3 months to start the year (CH New Year + 2 month lockdown)
2) Europe and the US are most likely buying a lot less because of economic disruption and their people not having jobs/money/financial security.

My guess is China's exports as a % of world exports is up, as most countries have had disruptions in production.  China's production of face masks and protective gear has boomed.  Pretty sure I read that China's imports have also tailed off significantly and it's trade surplus has grown this year.  (but I'd have to check to be certain).

Electricity being rationed sounds like a complete weird fabrication.  I was just reading last week that China has stopped approving new coal plants because the ones that came on line this year and last were more than needed, due to reduced demand.  And overall China's coal plants were functioning at just 50% capacity this year. 

So actually China has a lot of spare energy generating capacity.
Certainly the way heated stores and gyms and even hospitals in Shanghai leave many of their doors open in Winter wouldn't make you think there was any energy shortage
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61062 on: December 26, 2020, 07:45:42 AM »

That's because your question isn't sincere and the only people likely to answer (2) are even less sincere.

Question is 100% sincere.
These were two options.
One a huge success, the other a huge failure.
The US, much more than Europe, was in a position to contain and eliminate the virus.  Quarantines are an age old approach to transmissible disease.  The US had plenty of lead time to lock down borders and ports of entry.  And administer lockdowns where ever needed.

The US didn't really even try to stop or contain the virus.  Just tried to stop hospitals from being inundated.   The stealth herd immunity approach was a gruesome failure.

Somehow, the Trump Admin decided to increase transmission and deaths by punting all decisions to the state level to make things more chaotic and ad hoc and useless without coordination.  Trump doesn't even pretend to care anymore about the virus and people getting sick and dying.


Then there's this asshole, Trump's CV adviser, Scott Atlas who won't admit now that he was a genuine herd immunity backer:
A Pandemic of Misinformation
The media’s politicization of Covid has proved deadly and puts Americans’ freedoms at risk.


The media politicized the virus, not Trump!
Who knew?

Quote
With vaccines finally being administered, we should be entering a joyous phase.

Not so joyful for the 60K who died this month or will die next month, or perhaps their families and friends. 

Vaccines are great but will take 4-6 months to be widespread.  Meanwhile 200K infections and 3K deaths per day is out of control and horrific.  So maybe they'll be joy in bout 6 months once Americans stop getting ill and dying from this virus.

In China, people I talk to are very much in a wait-and-see mode on vaccines.  There's almost 0% risk, no need for precautions, so maybe they'll get vaccinated after seeing which vaccine is best and if it's needed (I'll likely need to be vaccinated to be able to get on an international bound airplane).
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61063 on: December 26, 2020, 10:13:14 AM »

An uplifting Christmas message for you all,  from Her Royal Highness....

https://youtu.be/IvY-Abd2FfM

Too clever by half.

LOL.

Disrespectful of a great Monarch, and great lady though.
It's about how easily digital fakery can fool people,  not about disrespect of HRH.   The royal family humour was pretty gentle,  really.   
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kidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #61064 on: December 26, 2020, 11:09:08 AM »

Congress can override the veto or attempt to modify the bill in a way that would pick up Trump's signature. Both chambers are due to meet early next week.



yep - modify

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-defends-vetoing-ndaa-china-russia-big-tech
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