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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1583834 times)

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23325 on: November 12, 2019, 09:37:25 AM »

http://www.theweek.com/articles/877262/president-already-confessed-crimes

Yep.  The real "circus" is composed of the absurd contortionists who twist logic to conjure a possibility of innocence. 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23326 on: November 12, 2019, 10:09:31 AM »

I don't think guilt or innocence is the key question here, Barton.

Masses:  "You cannot do that, President Trump

Trump:  "Oh, really?  Not sure that is so, but OK"

Masses:  "We are removing you from your position due to these actions on your part"

Trump:  "Heh - don't think so."
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23327 on: November 12, 2019, 10:40:45 AM »

I don't think guilt or innocence is the key question here, Barton.

Masses:  "You cannot do that, President Trump

Trump:  "Oh, really?  Not sure that is so, but OK"

Masses:  "We are removing you from your position due to these actions on your part"

Trump:  "Heh - don't think so."

Guilt or innocence is the question, kiidcarter8, because everything about your little dialogue is flat wrong.

Trump has never said “I disagree that these actions were inappropriate, but OK.”  He has A) flatly denied he has done what everyone can see he has done and B) he has said that he has the right to do these things.  There has been no acknowledgement nor pledge not to continue these actions in the sphere of Ukraine or elsewhere.  And of course, nothing about the Trump Campaign seeking interference and laundering of disinformation from a foreign power bares any resemblance to what he did in 2016, right?

It isn’t Trump’s call to stay or go once guilt has been established.  It’s on Congress.  And if congressional Republicans seek to give a lawless “president’ a pass, that’s their right to do so.  And the voters have a right to the facts so that they can use them to make their choice at the ballot box.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23328 on: November 12, 2019, 10:44:04 AM »

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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23329 on: November 12, 2019, 10:46:56 AM »

https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1194261265021059073

The Whistelblowers Lawyer!  lol.

All of the whistleblower allegations have turned out to be true.  Not one has been debunked.  Not one. 

Continuing to focus on him/her is all about intimidating other whistleblowers from coming forward. 
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23330 on: November 12, 2019, 10:55:48 AM »

The GOP's weak defense of Trump:

The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."

Of course the call is evidence of pressure. Trump brings up the "investigations" he wants Ukraine to conduct three times in the context of a conversation about aid to the country.  That is evidence.  Conclusive evidence in and of itself?  Maybe not.  But Democrats have collected that elsewhere.

Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."


Take Trump's word for it!  And of course Zelensky has no motive to back Trump on this. We have the reconstructed transcript, and can read what was said ourselves.  And multiple people on that call thought it was problematic, leading to it being buried in way that violated security protocol.

"The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call.

Ukraine was discussing how to deal with Trump's demands as early as May.  That they didn't know about this particular avenue of extortion at this exact time is irrelevant.  They would soon be made aware of it.  And Trump had held up the assistance before this call took place.

The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11.

After they were caught!  The whistleblower complaint made it to the DOJ in late August, and they knew Schiff was about to bring their scheme into the open.

And we know Ukraine had at this point already agreed to make the public statement the Trump Administration was demanding.  Only the complaint, and its getting into the open, stopped it from happening.

So their "defense" falls apart after an examination that took me all of three minutes to prepare.  Good luck with that, GOP.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/politics/house-republicans-trump-memo-impeachment-defense/index.html
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 11:01:33 AM by NeedsAdjustments »
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23331 on: November 12, 2019, 11:10:18 AM »

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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23332 on: November 12, 2019, 11:17:29 AM »

It isn’t Trump’s call to stay or go once guilt has been established.  It’s on Congress. And if congressional Republicans seek to give a lawless “president’ a pass, that’s their right to do so.  And the voters have a right to the facts so that they can use them to make their choice at the ballot box.


Right.  That's where, "I don't think so" comes in.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23333 on: November 12, 2019, 11:23:04 AM »

It isn’t Trump’s call to stay or go once guilt has been established.  It’s on Congress.  And if congressional Republicans seek to give a lawless “president’ a pass, that’s their right to do so.  And the voters have a right to the facts so that they can use them to make their choice at the ballot box.


So true.  I am as in favor of "process" as the next guy.  It's when process is a SHAM - and is not intelligent use of Congress's TIME that I waver.

"I am paying taxes so that my representative can do this?" - is every citizen's query to themselves.  Pre-vote 2020. 

Impeachment will HURT Dems at the polls, say many.  I cannot disagree.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23334 on: November 12, 2019, 11:39:04 AM »

It's pretty clear that Trump tried to enlist a foreign country in digging dirt on his political rival, withholding support and both military aid.  Just read the transcript.  It's perfectly clear.  Not to mention up to maybe a dozen witnesses (I've lost count).

Basically, they were too stupid to keep the president out of any direct unsavory dealmaking.  Probably because the whole concoction originated from Trump and Rudy (and maybe Manafort or Bannon?). 

Involving Rudy was stupid too, because it sent up a big red flag and caused the bureaucracy to bristle.  Rudy's back channel diplomacy was so unusual as to spotlight that something fishy was going down.

Trump could have had an envoy or ambassador offer the corrupt bargain, somebody he could trust, while Trump could claim the military aid is being held for whatever legit reason (we want negotiated settlement not further war, or whatever -- or that we want to be able to verify that corruption and skimming won't be involved, etc.).

They did some sneaky dirty tricks, and did a poor job of hiding it or protecting the President from any fallout.  They didn't even get what they wanted from Ukraine.  Which probably would have drawn attention to the corrupt deal anyway if Ukraine did announce an investigation into Burisma/Biden.

Amateur criminality.  Maybe their defense could be that they are too incompetent and stupid to enter such a conspiracy.

Lastly, hope no one forgets that Trump publicly asked China to investigate the Bidens.  Just as he asked Russia to hack the Dems during the campaign. 
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23335 on: November 12, 2019, 11:41:31 AM »

Explain how any of this is a SHAM?
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Good Gov't Saves Lives
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23336 on: November 12, 2019, 12:10:06 PM »

Iran197624!
So true.  I am as in favor of "process" as the next guy.  It's when process is a SHAM - and is not intelligent use of Congress's TIME that I waver.

"I am paying taxes so that my representative can do this?" - is every citizen's query to themselves.  Pre-vote 2020. 

Impeachment will HURT Dems at the polls, say many.  I cannot disagree.

A majority of Americans are happy that their representatives are participating in an investigation to determine Trump's actions on Ukraine, according to the polling.  For many that was why they voted the way they did in 2018.  This level of oversight would not be happening at all if Democrats did not rule the House.

As for the investigation being a "sham?"  I don't think anyone outside of Trumpist world believes that.  And it certainly won't hold up once the public hearings start.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23337 on: November 12, 2019, 12:10:46 PM »

Explain how any of this is a SHAM?

What Mulvaney said.
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23338 on: November 12, 2019, 12:14:09 PM »

Iran197624!
So true.  I am as in favor of "process" as the next guy.  It's when process is a SHAM - and is not intelligent use of Congress's TIME that I waver.

"I am paying taxes so that my representative can do this?" - is every citizen's query to themselves.  Pre-vote 2020. 

Impeachment will HURT Dems at the polls, say many.  I cannot disagree.

A majority of Americans are happy that their representatives are participating in an investigation to determine Trump's actions on Ukraine, according to the polling.  For many that was why they voted the way they did in 2018.  This level of oversight would not be happening at all if Democrats did not rule the House.

As for the investigation being a "sham?"  I don't think anyone outside of Trumpist world believes that.  And it certainly won't hold up once the public hearings start.

The danger of Trump's Administration was always, from the start, that this type of lawlessness at the  highest levels of government would become normalized by a press and government that hold the man to such low standards of conduct that they don't stand up and make clear that it isn't ok.

We are combating that now, saying clearly, this isn't ok.

Its on Republicans now to say that extorting a foreign ally into laundering disinformation in order to deceive Americans is a practice they can accept.  And up to voters to decide how they feel about that. 
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #23339 on: November 12, 2019, 12:14:38 PM »

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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020
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