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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1584233 times)

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24480 on: December 04, 2019, 02:55:39 PM »

I will believe what I have heard.  It is not unlawful to do what Trump did - to withhold minus the allegations of bribery or whatever you are calling it today.

Then you believe something that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.  Whether or not he had the right to withhold the aid (which is questionable) it can not be separated from the allegation of bribery (which is what the Constitution calls it)

It is not unlawful for Trump to grant pardons.  He has a pretty absolute right to do that.  It is unlawful for him to grant someone a pardon if they pay him $1 million.  The lawfulness/unlawfulness of the quo in the quid pro quo isn't at issue.

Like I said, many other nations have had aid withheld.

“Many?”  You have the stats on that?

It has on occasion happened that funds are withheld.  On those occasions questions are asked, like why?  When that question is asked, the President is supposed to have an answer.  And that answer is supposed to relate either to our interests, or those of an ally. 

Even by those standards alone the withholding of the Ukraine aid is problematic.   Ukraine asked the question.   People in the OMB asked the question.  Even Mitch fucking McConnell asked the question.  And no one got an answer.

Actually, amend that.  The answer to that question was made clear to Ukraine. 

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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24481 on: December 04, 2019, 02:59:25 PM »

FUCK GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

https://t.co/mbamduGXGD?amp=1
I guess he no longer has any of the money from GoFundMe account Kid set up for him.
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"Well, I left Rome and landed in Brussels.  On a plane ride so bumpy that I almost cried. Clergy men in uniform, and young girls pulling mussels. Everyone was there to greet me when I stepped inside..."-Bob Dylan

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24482 on: December 04, 2019, 03:05:01 PM »

Not sure what Booker stood for or advocated.

I think watching his debate performances would have helped.  They were good. 

This is a fun exercise too, that might prove instructional:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/

His why-can't-we-all-get-along shtick and shying away from negativity seemed to read the national mood wrong.

Biden has the same schtick.  Even more so, in fact.  Booker has no illusions that as soon as Trump is gone his buddy Republicans will work with him. 

Difference is perceived electability and as you say, the perception may be that a black man isn't as electable.  And that's a big problem when the whole point of being a moderate is supposed to be electability, and you are up against the white male VP for a popular President.

Booker not the only moderate in the field struggling to be heard over that.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24483 on: December 04, 2019, 03:13:14 PM »

As one whose Student Loan debt exceeds the Gross National Product of many nations, I would happily accept loan forgiveness.  At the same time, I don't think it's the world's greatest idea.

It’s the price tag that is scary, maybe, but the idea of fully subsidizing student loans up to a certain amount for poor and middle class people is not outlandish, is it?  Tax code currently has programs that hand out money to the working poor to encourage people to get jobs.  Why can’t we hand out money to the educated poor to encourage people to get educated?

And as LarryBnDC said, the economic stimulus would be Yuuuge!  Way Yuuuuger than the 2 Trillion we just spent on corporate tax cuts.

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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24484 on: December 04, 2019, 03:16:02 PM »

So I guess we all agree that the dem nomination process is not going well for Booker. 
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24485 on: December 04, 2019, 03:19:00 PM »

I should add that Booker was basically eyeing the NJ senate seat from Day One as Mayor of Newark.  He was seen as a rising star if he could do well enough.  And so a good deal of his Newark leadership was with an eye on the upcoming state race.

Also, Wall St wealth is just a fact of politics in NJ. 
One advantage Kamala and Cory both had was they represent two states that are huge donor bases for the DEM party.  When Obama launched his re-election campaign he kicked it off in NJ, and not because it would be a contested state.   That could/should have helped them.
Kamala was also fresh off the Kavanaugh hearings where she was sharp and effective.  (Then again Hillary was fresh off the Benghazi marathon hearings in which she was sharp and effective ...).

Kid, since you're in NJ, let's hear your take on Booker. 
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24486 on: December 04, 2019, 03:33:17 PM »

I should add that Booker was basically eyeing the NJ senate seat from Day One as Mayor of Newark.  He was seen as a rising star if he could do well enough.  And so a good deal of his Newark leadership was with an eye on the upcoming state race.

I'm unsure how much of the above is factual.  Booker was mayor of Newark for eight years.  The Senate seat he won became available when Lautenberg died.  Sure, Lautenberg was old but before Menendez's probable corruption surfaced, I don't know that Senate was the obvious path for him given those two were immovables.

Booker is/was ambitious, yes.  He never planned on his political career ending in Newark. Given his friendship with Christie, I bet Governor was the plan if there was one.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24487 on: December 04, 2019, 03:39:33 PM »

I should add that Booker was basically eyeing the NJ senate seat from Day One as Mayor of Newark.  He was seen as a rising star if he could do well enough.  And so a good deal of his Newark leadership was with an eye on the upcoming state race.

I'm unsure how much of the above is factual.  Booker was mayor of Newark for eight years.  The Senate seat he won became available when Lautenberg died.  Sure, Lautenberg was old but before Menendez's probable corruption surfaced, I don't know that Senate was the obvious path for him given those two were immovables.

Booker is/was ambitious, yes.  He never planned on his political career ending in Newark. Given his friendship with Christie, I bet Governor was the plan if there was one.

Edit: Ok Lautenberg was the oldest serving Senator and had announced he wouldn't run for reelection six months before he died.  So possible that Booker planned all along to succeed him. 

But still more probable that he saw a number of open paths, and took the one that opened to him at the right time. 
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24488 on: December 04, 2019, 03:46:33 PM »

So a President can SIMPLY choose to not follow a law.  Got it.  Who told you that?

The LAW says end of fiscal year.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24489 on: December 04, 2019, 03:49:32 PM »

Kid, since you're in NJ, let's hear your take on Booker.


Born leader

Now he can just be derailed by foolhardy maneuvers or racism (I dont see this).

Likely a governor.  Or in the Cabinet.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24490 on: December 04, 2019, 03:57:55 PM »

Martha Roby is THE BOMB!
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24491 on: December 04, 2019, 04:01:18 PM »

So a President can SIMPLY choose to not follow a law.  Got it.  Who told you that?

The LAW says end of fiscal year.
Jeez. You're all over the place. Go outside.
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"Well, I left Rome and landed in Brussels.  On a plane ride so bumpy that I almost cried. Clergy men in uniform, and young girls pulling mussels. Everyone was there to greet me when I stepped inside..."-Bob Dylan

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24492 on: December 04, 2019, 04:15:52 PM »

I mean, Booker wanted to get some visibility, but he's never been all that much of a contender - mayors rarely get far when they go direct to running for POTUS.  I doubt even Bloomberg, though his city is nearly nation-sized in people, and though he's got billions, will get that far.  I like that Cory said he was big on affordable housing and had some cool ideas for it, but pretty much anyone who's been a mayor rubs up against the affordable housing issue in a close and personal way, so that's just a given.  Mayors are probably the real frontline when it comes to battling wrestling with developers and NIMBY snobs who have no interest in real affordable housing.  When it comes to housing, that old phrase "all politics is local," really resonates.

Booker has been a US Senator for a bit...

Oil, did you mean Castro or Buttigieg when you said "go direct"?  I know some people lump first term senators in the "too green to run" category, and that's how I took your point.   (I know, technically, Booker is sorta in his 1.2 term, due to a brief first term from a special election....)   In any case, we've had first term Senators move on up to the WH, JFK and Obama I think are the only ones.   I think Obama had the shortest actual service in the Senate before becoming potus. 

In any case, I think one can make a case that the mayors, like Castro and Pete, do need to scuff up their shoes a bit more.   Bloomberg might be a little more seasoned, but is problematic as a Democrat for other reasons. 
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24493 on: December 04, 2019, 04:18:06 PM »

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/25/headlines/coal_industry_knew_burning_fossil_fuels_causes_climate_change_as_early_as_1966?fbclid=IwAR2eDF-zHAtKv2UsB6QAKnzzNqXdBwj20bB0lMVzVdG-uC34yombrel3uS8

Kid and Bambu still don't accept man-made climate change. Ward still thinks it can be responded to by half-measures.


The globe heats, and cools, all by itself.
The glaciers started melting 15,000 years ago.
Once upon a time you could walk from India to Australia, then the seas rose and flooded the land bridge.

CO2 is 0.04% of the atmosphere.
97% of CO2 in the atmosphere occurs naturally.

I'm keeping my old [looks new] Corolla.
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oilcan

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #24494 on: December 04, 2019, 04:31:52 PM »

Thanks, Bart, and Larry and NA.  Yes, I had two ideas going about mayors and somehow attempted to cram them into one sentence.   Argh.  Yes, I know Cory is a US Senator, and did not mean to erase his tenure from the history books.   And yes, one can cite Obama and JFK as Senators who leaped successfully from first terms to the WH.   The other, Bart, was Warren Harding, whose presidency might (haha) support better my notion about "too green to run."  Really, the same could be said of JFK.   I confess to taking a rather military view in regard to high office, i.e. you have to spend several decades rising before they let you be a general or an admiral.   IMO Obama was a fluke - he just happened to be extraordinary and at the right time and place.   
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