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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1583949 times)

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29160 on: March 17, 2020, 11:14:25 AM »

This is not the flu.

This is not the flu.

This is not the flu.

There is a reason the common facemasks are not recommended, but the resistance is amazing.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29161 on: March 17, 2020, 11:17:17 AM »

And the reason is ...

Also, a thin surgical face mask provides some protection.
The protection goes both ways, keeping your germs in and others out.
A good respirator mask provides much more.

And they likely limit the amount people touch their nose and mouth, and remind folks not to do so, and use tissues, etc.

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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29162 on: March 17, 2020, 11:18:43 AM »

SARS Cov-2 is similar to the flu in symptoms, transmission, etc.
The analogy mostly works well, except where specific virology differs.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29163 on: March 17, 2020, 12:19:21 PM »

Quote
Unlike NIOSH-approved N95s, facemasks are loose-fitting and provide only barrier protection against droplets, including large respiratory particles. No fit testing or seal check is necessary with facemasks. Most facemasks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and do not prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales.

The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated.
~CDC

There are three major problems with facemasks.

1) They accumulate the virus on their surfaces, so that handling them will increase contact, not decrease it.

2) People wearing the masks tend to touch their faces to adjust the things more often, not less, than they would otherwise touch their faces, increasing risk.

3) False sense of security. As previously noted, there was a lot of mask wearing in 1918, but to no evident good effect.


It's not just the CDC that's saying this, either.

And the CDC is not crazy about facemasks for the influenza, either, but their cautionary notes on them are different, suggesting only that if you use them in public you probably need to use them at home, also.

COVID-19 (or SARS-CoV2) is more contagious than the flus have been. It's easier to catch if you are exposed and they find facemasks don't reduce exposure.

Do as you wish. I'm done with this topic.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29164 on: March 17, 2020, 01:32:18 PM »

1) They accumulate the virus on their surfaces, so that handling them will increase contact, not decrease it.

So they can indeed block out the virus ... yep.

Better to write: they might accumulate virus on their surface, so that handling them could increase contact (... and handling a mask should be followed by hand washing).

Quote
2) People wearing the masks tend to touch their faces to adjust the things more often, not less, than they would otherwise touch their faces, increasing risk.

This is in the realm of anecdotal.  If you wear a mask regularly and get comfortable with it, then this problem is greatly diminished.  And it's not really just touching your face, but more not touching your mouth, nose, eyes.  Personally, I definitely find I touch my face less having a mask reminding me not to than if I didn't have the mask on.

Quote
3) False sense of security.

I find it the opposite.  The mask puts me on alert and reminds me to take other precautions, to not touch my nose and to do so with tissues when necessary (I have a fair degree of allergies).  Seeing everybody you meet wearing a mask does not provide a sense of security.  It more induces a sense of concern and alertness.  It encourages more precautions.


Quote
COVID-19 (or SARS-CoV2) is more contagious than the flus have been. It's easier to catch if you are exposed and they find facemasks don't reduce exposure.

The coronavirus is transmitted through water droplets emitted from an infected persons mouth.  Either through the air in water aerosol droplets or on surfaces where such droplets land.  The infected person might be asymptomatic, presymptomatic or experiencing symptoms.  At any of these stages they may be contagious, as far as is known.

Which means you or anyone you run across may have the virus and be able to transmit it.  If everyone is wearing a mask, some are keeping most of their viral load to themselves via a mask, and others are less exposed and keeping out much of the viral load those not wearing masks are emitting.
How this isn't helpful is hard to fathom.

Simply, if you have some degree of covering protecting your mouth and nose from the external world, you are safer and better protected than if you don't.  I don't see how this is even debatable. 

Nobody is arguing that wearing a mask is 100% protection.  Or that mask wearing shouldn't be combined with other precautions -- social distancing, limited public exposure, hand washing, non-face touching. 


I see qualifications that you don't need to wear a mask in a low-risk environment, but that definition is merely based on the numbers of cases reported in any given area, and a low risk environment can ratchet up to  high-risk once an outbreak is detected, which means that you should have been protecting yourself, but you were unaware of the true risk level. 

Most epidemiologists qualify that if you were in Wuhan you probably should wear a mask.  Of course, no one expected northern Italy, or New Rochelle or Kirkland Washington or the Geron conference in Boston to become mini-Wuhans.  Precautions are good.  Blocking out germs during an epidemic is sensible.  Wearing a mask will provide a fair degree of protection, and in conjunction with other measures will prevent infections and save lives.
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facilitatorn

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Will the Supreme Court grant trump work release to attend the republican national convention?

For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.

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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29166 on: March 17, 2020, 02:01:38 PM »

2016 I waited in line for 2 hours to vote in the presidential primary. This year, in and out with no delay or waiting in line. That is what happens when a Democrat is in charge of voting. The exercise of the franchise is made easier, not harder.
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The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice with the palace has the brew that is true!

facilitatorn

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Will the Supreme Court grant trump work release to attend the republican national convention?

For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.

Richard P. Feynman

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29168 on: March 17, 2020, 02:20:56 PM »

Wearing a mask will provide a fair degree of protection, and in conjunction with other measures will prevent infections and save lives.

I'm glad you know more than the scientists, Bo.

Do as you will.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29169 on: March 17, 2020, 02:37:17 PM »

Trump administration working to send checks directly to Americans

The Trump administration is working to send money directly to Americans in a bid to curb the economic fallout of the coronavirus crisis.

“We’re looking at sending checks to Americans immediately,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told reporters at the White House.
Mnuchin said the administration was looking at ways to provide the checks within the next two weeks.

He also said the administration will allow Americans to defer up to $1 million in payments to the Internal Revenue Service for 90 days.

Mnuchin said the IRS would not charge interest or penalties for the deferral. He said corporations could defer up to $10 million in IRS payments.

CNN’s John Harwood also asked President Donald Trump and Treasury Sec. Steve Mnuchin about the logistics of an economic stimulus idea that could give $1,000 checks to Americans, which is gaining some bipartisan support.

Mnuchin expressed some support for the idea and it would be discussed during his Capitol Hill meetings.

“I think it’s clear we don’t need to send people who make a million dollars a year checks. But we like — that’s one of the ideas we like. We’re going to preview that today and then we’ll be talking about details afterwards,” Mnuchin said.

Trump chimed in, saying, “I think we’re going to do something that gets money to them as quickly as possible. That may not be an accurate way of doing it because obviously some people shouldn’t be getting checks for $1000. But we’ll have a pretty good idea by the end of the day what we’re going to be doing.”
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29170 on: March 17, 2020, 02:38:59 PM »

The Canada Border Services Agency announced new coronavirus screening questions Monday after being criticized for an apparently haphazard approach to evaluating inbound travelers for possible symptoms and to advising them on the strongly encouraged 14-day self-isolation period upon arrival.



Did Trudeau drop the ball?


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/17/canada-snowbird-coronavirus-133062
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29171 on: March 17, 2020, 02:50:02 PM »

I know you all have this but just in case:


https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html


Mayor deBlasio,who in contrast to Gov Cuomo has gone to great length to make it appear his job is tougher than everyone else, says NYC needs to be ready to shelter in place.

President Trump says no decision on national quarantine has been arrived at just yet.


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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29172 on: March 17, 2020, 03:05:49 PM »

Senate to pass House bill as is - send it to Trump in a key show of bipartisanship.  Then they will submit another bill this week for larger coverage aimed at the virus and reimbursements

The press is in shock.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29173 on: March 17, 2020, 03:13:07 PM »

Wearing a mask will provide a fair degree of protection, and in conjunction with other measures will prevent infections and save lives.

I'm glad you know more than the scientists, Bo.

Do as you will.

When you are trying to protect yourself from airborne droplets that may contain virus, having some barrier between your important breather holes and the external world will provide some protection.   (same goes for surface droplets that you may touch, having something blocking you from touching your facial sensory organs is going to afford a level of protection).

I also have 2+ months of experience wearing a facemask and being surrounded by others doing the same.   

Everything I've read, or you and kiid have posted amounts to quibbles about degree of effectiveness and proper usage.  Sure a good mask is better than a flimsier one.  But a surgical mask is better than none, some protection is better than none.

The only thing I have found at all convincing is that there is a shortage of masks in the US and health care pros and those infected should get priority.  Which is a sad commentary.  And preventing many from applying extra protection.

As things get worse, likely mask wearing will become commonplace and probably recommended ...

Masks should be cheap and plentiful. 
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #29174 on: March 17, 2020, 03:21:56 PM »

Senate to pass House bill as is - send it to Trump in a key show of bipartisanship.  Then they will submit another bill this week for larger coverage aimed at the virus and reimbursements

The press is in shock.

Not quite, though Nacy did fend off most of the worst of the usual GOP insane vampire hackery we’ve come to know and hate from the party of donald trump and David duke.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e70e52ec5b6eab7793d0ceb
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Will the Supreme Court grant trump work release to attend the republican national convention?

For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.

Richard P. Feynman
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