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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[bodiddley]

Yeah, Trump's not arrogant at all.

And never forget that Trump treated the virus as a minor annoyance and a PR campaign rather than a major health concern.

[josh]

Is the moderator of this forum, who has claimed to be deleting posts based on a concern they are not accurate - really going on and on about how patients should not be using hydroxychloroquine to combat COVID-19 symptoms?

Does debating someone - trying to get ahead in an argument - really come ahead of the distribution of valuable information on a board he should be moderating rationally, honestly and fairly?

Maybe it IS in fact time to contact the owner of this board and ask for a change.

Oh, poor widdle Kiddie is feeling hurt about being called out for bullshit?

Kid, your posts on hydroxychloroguine have been anything but "distribution of valuable information," despite your protestations. Advising people to take an untested, unapproved medication is wrong of you to do. Just because your president keeps singing its praises doesn't make it so.

It's like your soon-to-be deleted post about ibuprofen... you provided NO EVIDENCE to support that advice.

I am delaying in the (likely vain) hopes that you will provide substantiation of your post.

I have not deleted the recent post about the French expert, as it is not a poster recommended a course of medical action to other posters.

That you cannot or will not tell the difference is your problem, not mine.

Please, do write to Liq and tell him how I am abusing my role as moderator! Send him over here to see my heavy-handed mistreatment of you! Go for it!

But do try to be honest about what you posted that I deleted, would you? If that is within your capacity. I acknowledge that it might not be.

[josh]

(medical advice without support deleted)

Thank you for the link.

You can KILL the source without a link.  Go right ahead. 

And please - link me to a  doctor that is saying to take ibuprophen when a solid alternative is available - if you have that.  I'd surely be interested.

No link to support your medical advice?

No medical advice. It's just not that complicated, Kid. Send this one to Liq, too, while you're at it.

[kiidcarter8]

Cuomo has been getting a lot of praise.  But how the hell did NY get so bad?
Being so international, and trafficked, and densely populated, NYC was always going to be in great danger form the disease.  How is it they waited so long before enacting the basic measures (sans masks and temp checks) that worked in China.

It's true

Cuomo is being judged on his actions SINCE the virus grew - while the president does not get that same respect.

[Yankguy1]

Heh.  Like having things opened by Easter?  Oh, sorry that was a mere "aspiration." The president gets as much respect as he merits.

[LarryBnDC]

Cuomo has been getting a lot of praise.  But how the hell did NY get so bad?
Being so international, and trafficked, and densely populated, NYC was always going to be in great danger form the disease.  How is it they waited so long before enacting the basic measures (sans masks and temp checks) that worked in China.

Until recently the state legislature, specifically the Senate, was controlled by the GOP and NYC was enemy territory.

[LarryBnDC]

Cuomo has been getting a lot of praise.  But how the hell did NY get so bad?
Being so international, and trafficked, and densely populated, NYC was always going to be in great danger form the disease.  How is it they waited so long before enacting the basic measures (sans masks and temp checks) that worked in China.

It's true

Cuomo is being judged on his actions SINCE the virus grew - while the president does not get that same respect.

Why did the Administration gut the agencies that were in place to handle such a crisis?

Why does he not get the same respect?

Respect is earned and the ‘president’ just ain’t up to the job...

[josh]

I went looking - I did a simple Google search with two terms in it --> ibuprofen coronavirus

The vast bulk of sites were not medical, themselves, but places like FactCheck or news site recapitulating what medical sites had to say. I found no new report or study supporting Kid's claim about ibuprofen. None.

Here are some of the medical sites (skipping WHO and CDC, since their positions are what are in every news webpage):
https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/is-it-safe-to-take-aspirin-to-treat-coronavirus-symptoms

Is it safe to take aspirin to treat coronavirus symptoms?
ANSWER

For adults, it’s safe to take aspirin for pain or fever from COVID-19. Due to initial concern that anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen and aspirin may worsen coronavirus symptoms, the World Health Organization initially recommended against the use of these anti-inflammatory drugs. However, they reversed that recommendation several days later and no longer recommend against ibuprofen or other anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin. Children and teenagers should not take aspirin due to the risk of it causing a life-threatening condition called Reye’s syndrome.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/coronavirus-drugs-for-home-and-hospital/

It’s kind of nuts. In the last four months, there have been more than 2,000 publications for COVID-19-related therapies, descriptions of the disease – it’s just an insane amount of data to keep up with, and unfortunately none of it is of the highest quality,” said Matthew Miller, who has a doctorate in pharmacy and is a clinical specialist in infectious diseases at UCHealth University of Colorado Hospital and the University of Colorado Skaggs School of Pharmacy, both at the Anschutz Medical Campus.
...
Pain relievers and fever reducers – including NSAIDs such as ibuprofen – should be fine. A March 11 article in the British medical journal The Lancet raised temporary alarm about the hypothetical possibility of ibuprofen/NSAIDs being a hindrance to COVID-19 treatment. That has since been contradicted by World Health Organization and the Food and Drug Administration. With the exception of patients with conditions that would preclude ibuprofen and other NSAIDs anyway (kidney conditions, high blood pressure, and others), “There’s no specific reason to avoid NSAIDs,” Miller said.

This one supports the cautious recommendation, not on the basis of any studies, but nonetheless does suggest what Kid says ought to be required.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center
Coronavirus Resource Center
As coronavirus spreads, many questions and some answers

Is it safe to take ibuprofen to treat symptoms of COVID-19?

Some French doctors advise against using ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil, many generic versions) for COVID-19 symptoms based on reports of otherwise healthy people with confirmed COVID-19 who were taking an NSAID for symptom relief and developed a severe illness, especially pneumonia. These are only observations and not based on scientific studies.

The WHO initially recommended using acetaminophen instead of ibuprofen to help reduce fever and aches and pains related to this coronavirus infection, but now states that either acetaminophen or ibuprofen can be used. Rapid changes in recommendations create uncertainty. Since some doctors remain concerned about NSAIDs, it still seems prudent to choose acetaminophen first, with a total dose not exceeding 3,000 milligrams per day.

However, if you suspect or know you have COVID-19 and cannot take acetaminophen, or have taken the maximum dose and still need symptom relief, taking over-the-counter ibuprofen does not need to be specifically avoided.

Lastly, a follow-up from the BMJ (formerly called the British Medical Journal) to their original piece recommending avoidance of aspirin or ibuprofen, after the French Minister called for it because of the deterioration of four teens upon their taking it. (Yes, just that.)
https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m1168

Debate over the safety of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) in treating covid-19 has continued with the European Medicines Agency saying that the drugs could be considered for treating the emerging viral illness in some cases.

The agency’s comments were prompted by claims from France’s health minister Oliver Veran that people showing covid-19 symptoms should use paracetamol rather than ibuprofen, because the latter might worsen the condition.1

The minister’s comments were themselves prompted by reports in French media that the condition of four young people with covid-19 deteriorated after taking ibuprofen. The hospital mentioned in the reports said that it would not comment on such speculation.
...
The EMA has now said:

“There is currently no scientific evidence establishing a link between ibuprofen and worsening of covid-19. EMA is monitoring the situation closely and will review any new information that becomes available on this issue in the context of the pandemic.”

But it added: “When starting treatment for fever or pain in covid-19, patients and healthcare professionals should consider all available treatment options including paracetamol and NSAIDs. Each medicine has its own benefits and risks which are reflected in its product information.”2

[/size]

Of note, further down the page, is this:

Researchers at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine in Oxford have opened up another avenue for debate, however, by questioning the traditional advice of using over-the-counter pills to lower a fever in those with acute respiratory illness in an analysis published on 19 March.3 They said that the benefits of fever should not be overlooked. “Fever is common and is a good prognostic sign in acutely unwell patients with infection, associated with higher rates of survival.”

They concluded: “The current evidence does not support routine antipyretic administration to treat fever in acute respiratory infections and covid-19.”

In other words, they recommend against any fever-reducing medication for COVID-19.

[josh]

Cuomo has been getting a lot of praise.  But how the hell did NY get so bad?
Being so international, and trafficked, and densely populated, NYC was always going to be in great danger form the disease.  How is it they waited so long before enacting the basic measures (sans masks and temp checks) that worked in China.

It's true

Cuomo is being judged on his actions SINCE the virus grew - while the president does not get that same respect.

Cuomo has admitted having been behind the 8-ball from the start and taken responsibility for his screw-ups, which is a part of his being judged on his actions since then.

And the president is being judged on his actions since then.

He has continued to downplay severity, claimed that stopping deaths at a mere 100,000 would be judged to have been successful, graded himself 10 out of 10 for his work on this, and bragged about his ratings. He called it the Chinese Virus, against advice. He pushed for Easter (as did you). He "forced" GM to do what they were going to do, already, because he was unhappy with them (as already discussed).

So many actions since then - and he is judged for all of them, when you want him only judged on the positives.

And yes, he has had positives. But he ought to give the briefings back to Pence, because he does them really badly.

[facilitatorn]

You're a proud extremist

Rock on, man.

Since sacrificing you manhood on the altar of the republican death cult, you are a neutered little Nazi twist, a piss face, and a hollow puppet.

This is why your opinion is valued less than wet dog shit and only slightly more than donald trump’s.

[barton]

Thanks for all the well-sourced info on NSAIDs, Josh.  And Kid has now posted a link which mentions the French health officials warning about ibuprofen, the most common NSAID.    Don't know if this is really a serious problem,  but I will keep an eye on the research.   In the meantime,  it seems like it doesn't hurt to opt for a Tylenol instead of a Motrin,  until more data comes along.   

Here's a straightforward look at how this all affects 45s presidency, and raises points of comparison with other leaders...

 https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/opinions/history-verdict-on-trump-devastating-dantonio/index.html

[barton]

Curious why Josh deleted the Avera page on NSAIDs.  Avera is a reputable health organization in my state and Minnesota and Nebraska.   One can certainly question their summation on ibuprofen, but need it be deleted?   Kid just posted this a few minutes ago and it's gone.   

[Hairy Lime]

Cuomo has been getting a lot of praise.  But how the hell did NY get so bad?
Being so international, and trafficked, and densely populated, NYC was always going to be in great danger form the disease.  How is it they waited so long before enacting the basic measures (sans masks and temp checks) that worked in China.

It's true

Cuomo is being judged on his actions SINCE the virus grew - while the president does not get that same respect.

For the same reason apples.do not get judged on their orangeness.

[Hairy Lime]

Meanwhile... Arizona has a quirky definition of essential:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/31/arizona-golf-essential-coronavirus-covid-19-restrictions/

[Hairy Lime]

Thanks for all the well-sourced info on NSAIDs, Josh.  And Kid has now posted a link which mentions the French health officials warning about ibuprofen, the most common NSAID.    Don't know if this is really a serious problem,  but I will keep an eye on the research.   In the meantime,  it seems like it doesn't hurt to opt for a Tylenol instead of a Motrin,  until more data comes along.   

Here's a straightforward look at how this all affects 45s presidency, and raises points of comparison with other leaders...

 https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/opinions/history-verdict-on-trump-devastating-dantonio/index.html

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-officials-no-evidence-ibuprofen-is-dangerous-to-coronavirus-patients-224334073.html