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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[kiidcarter8]

Scientists like Mr. Tegnell, who has become something of a celebrity in Sweden, and not politicians have driven the debate over the coronavirus response.

Political leaders rarely attend news conferences about the virus, and the Swedish Constitution prevents the government from meddling in the affairs of independent administrative authorities, such as the Public Health Authority.

While there was some early talk in Sweden of achieving “herd immunity,” which would mean infecting at least 60 percent of the population, Mr. Tegnell denies that was ever the government’s policy.


“Basically we are trying to do the same thing that most countries are doing — slow down the spread as much as possible,” he said. “It’s just that we use slightly different tools than many other countries.”




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html


Thanks to The NY Times for the free articles

[josh]

Based on Sweden's experience, we may also be able to relax some other lockdown restrictions.

Which one of their results gives that conclusion, Kid?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/
Mostly false

Sweden: 256 deaths per million.
Denmark: 78 deaths per million.
Norway: 39 deaths per million.
Finland: 38 deaths per million.

[bodiddley]

The problem(s) in America was that there was a long delay and period of downplaying the virus before any lockdowns occurred.  In other words, it was already late and spreading when the belated lockdowns occurred.

Secondly it was rather patchwork.  State by state.  And in some states, county by county.  if one county in FLA or CA closes their beaches, but the next county has them open, the lockdown in one area is largely undermined.

Biden should hammer home No Coordinated National Response.
Say that every time a human is within earshot.
I think that's pretty easy to understand and a succinct indictment of Trump's handling.  Can add specifics and details and how Biden/Obama would have handled things.  But get that core message across.
Have to say Hillary's competence and mastery of gov't and details would be perfect about now.  I think she could chew up and spit out this failed version of Trump.  Hopefully the Biden folks will get her out on to some news shows.  Or at least get some advice and approach from her.  Pull out all the stops and have Obama involved as well.  If big rallies occur, Biden should have Obama at his first one.  Dems past and present should present a united front in support of Biden.  Obama, Hillary, Michelle O, Sanders, AOC, Warren, Kamala.  Make it clear this is too important an election to lose.  Drive turnout.  What will the GOP do, counter with W Bush .... ?

Also, correct a mistake Hillary made last time.  Start early pushing for a DEM Senate.  Make the case that we need a Dem president and Senate to get things done.  And list what those are.  A return to competency, normalcy, removing corruption.  Health case access for all.  Solar and wind over fossil fuels, especially phasing out coal.   Climate change action.  Wealth tax and especially taxing corporations.  Big infrastructure projects to rebuild the country.  Etc.

[kiidcarter8]

Based on Sweden's experience, we may also be able to relax some other lockdown restrictions.

Which one of their results gives that conclusion, Kid?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/
Mostly false

Sweden: 256 deaths per million.
Denmark: 78 deaths per million.
Norway: 39 deaths per million.
Finland: 38 deaths per million.

One trick pony

Open the mind, lad.

[Hairy Lime]

Based on Sweden's experience, we may also be able to relax some other lockdown restrictions.

Which one of their results gives that conclusion, Kid?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/
Mostly false

Sweden: 256 deaths per million.
Denmark: 78 deaths per million.
Norway: 39 deaths per million.
Finland: 38 deaths per million.

One trick pony

Correcting you bull shit is not being a One trick pony. It is a full time job.

Did you read the article?

[kiidcarter8]

Have to say Hillary's competence and mastery of gov't and details would be perfect about now.  I think she could chew up and spit out this failed version of Trump.  Hopefully the Biden folks will get her out on to some news shows

Did you want Hillary to run again?

[josh]

Based on Sweden's experience, we may also be able to relax some other lockdown restrictions.

Which one of their results gives that conclusion, Kid?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/28/facebook-posts/sweden-mostly-open-has-higher-covid-19-death-rate-/
Mostly false

Sweden: 256 deaths per million.
Denmark: 78 deaths per million.
Norway: 39 deaths per million.
Finland: 38 deaths per million.

One trick pony

Open the mind, lad.

Still waiting to learn what you think was worth 7.5 times more deaths per million than Norway.

"Open the mind?"

Your mind isn't open, Kid.

It is clinging to anything that excuses the GOP agenda, regardless of the cost in lives. You're like the woman I talked with who argued against vaccines, preferring instead "healthy living style," even in the face of 100% death from rabies or 95% death from smallpox.

[kiidcarter8]

Did you read the article?


I knew the numbers already

[kiidcarter8]

The concerns for Norway and Denmark are quite similar to what you have for us here in the US, upon "re-opening"


He argues that while Sweden might have more infections in the short term, it will not face the risk of a huge infection spike that Denmark might face once its lockdown is lifted.

"I think both Norway and Denmark are now very concerned about how you stop this complete lockdown in a way so you don't cause this wave to come immediately when you start loosening up," he said


Right?  Wrong?  We don't know.

[josh]

Tell me again how these are not terrorists, Kid.

Heavily armed men have stormed the Michigan State House and are right now threatening the governor and the state legislature.

State police are protecting Governor Whitmer and preventing the gunmen from reaching the House Floor, but the armed "protesters" are in the House Gallery, shouting down at legislators.

In any rational world, these goons would be called terrorists and the Army would be engaging them right now. These are not protesters, they are the enemies of democracy and they should be treated as such.

[kiidcarter8]

Another question asked is if Norway and Denmark would be so quick to accept another lockdown if the numbers spiked again. 

In the Sweden model the citizens seem fairly happy.  Not much of that in neighboring countries - nor here for that matter. Their main regret is that they were not able to better protect their elderly (quite similar to the US).

Maybe Josh can tell us if Sweden HAS more elderly than Norway, than Denmark - and if more or less live in urban setting.

[josh]

The concerns for Norway and Denmark are quite similar to what you have for us here in the US, upon "re-opening"


He argues that while Sweden might have more infections in the short term, it will not face the risk of a huge infection spike that Denmark might face once its lockdown is lifted.

"I think both Norway and Denmark are now very concerned about how you stop this complete lockdown in a way so you don't cause this wave to come immediately when you start loosening up," he said


Right?  Wrong?  We don't know.

We do know, Kid. You keep saying we don't.

But what he keeps spinning is myths and you keep regurgitating them.

Herd immunity from this is not a given from having people getting it. THAT we do not know, yet.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-what-antibody-tests-tell-us

But we also know that Sweden's deaths have not stopped yet.

And yes, Denmark and Norway fear what we fear, but you seem to be suffering from a misunderstanding.

US deaths per million are ~250% of Denmark's and ~500% of Norway's. Denmark and Norway are concerned about another wave, but if their results DOUBLE, they will be far better yet than Sweden's or ours.

[REDSTATEWARD]

All eyes on Sweden

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html


"What's the strategy of the other countries?" he asked. "It [herd immunity] was already the only thing that will eventually stop this, unless there is a vaccine in time, which is quite unlikely.
"The truth is that no one, no one in Sweden, no one elsewhere either, knows what the best strategy is. Time will tell."
He said that he believed that stricter lockdowns "only serve to flatten the curve and flattening the curve doesn't mean that cases disappear -- they are just moved in time."
"And as long as the healthcare system reasonably can cope with and give good care to the ones that need care, it's not clear that having the cases later in time is better."



Yes (see bold).  Because it is NOVEL.

Except...

(a) We already know that Sweden's experiment failed (see prior posts for the evidence)

Sweden’s approach was a success.

Your marching orders are out of date. You can go back to hating those Socialists.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/30/trump-sweden-paying-heavily-for-not-imposing-coronavirus-lockdown/

LOL.
Nice dodge.

[josh]

Maybe Josh can tell us if Sweden HAS more elderly than Norway, than Denmark - and if more or less live in urban setting.

Sweden's got 19.9% of its population over 65.
Finland's at 21.9%.
Denmark's at 19.6%.
Norway's at a mere 17.2%, 85% of Sweden's. No, not enough to account for a 500% greater rate.

Stockholm has about 260k more people than Copenhagen. Another 90k down to Helsinki. And 200k further to Oslo.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/finland/

p.s. The US is at 16%. But, for example, there are 70 deaths at the Veterans Home in Holyoke and 31 in Chelsea. But in Laconia, NH, the number is 0. They buttoned down earlier than the other two.

[josh]

All eyes on Sweden

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html


"What's the strategy of the other countries?" he asked. "It [herd immunity] was already the only thing that will eventually stop this, unless there is a vaccine in time, which is quite unlikely.
"The truth is that no one, no one in Sweden, no one elsewhere either, knows what the best strategy is. Time will tell."
He said that he believed that stricter lockdowns "only serve to flatten the curve and flattening the curve doesn't mean that cases disappear -- they are just moved in time."
"And as long as the healthcare system reasonably can cope with and give good care to the ones that need care, it's not clear that having the cases later in time is better."



Yes (see bold).  Because it is NOVEL.

Except...

(a) We already know that Sweden's experiment failed (see prior posts for the evidence)

Sweden’s approach was a success.

Your marching orders are out of date. You can go back to hating those Socialists.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/30/trump-sweden-paying-heavily-for-not-imposing-coronavirus-lockdown/

LOL.
Nice dodge.

500% higher deaths/million.

"dodge" says Ward.

No, it's not working in Sweden.