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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[REDSTATEWARD]

I claim no legal expertise,  but doesn't pleading guilty mean you have openly admitted your guilt?    Help us out here,  legal experts!   I need to find ways to tart up my tautologies!

SCOTUS on Wednesday threw out the New Jersey case called Bridgegate where two state political appointees were charged with abuse of power and both pled guilty. But the UNANIMOUS  ruled the prosecutors made up a crime to punish political opponents. The Flynn case has different circumstances  the Justice Department now  says the Government used its force to prosecute and punish a political opponent.

Their guilty plea is still an admission of the underlying facts. They could only appeal on the issue of whether the underlying facts constituted a crime. No one is arguing that the facts Flynn admitted did not constitute a crime. The claim was apparently that the Trump justice department charged a Trump loyalist and Trump administration official without sufficient prediction or connection between the questioning and the investigation. Because, apparently,  asking someone under investigation for contacts with Russia about contacts with Russia is not connected with the investigation about contacts with Russia.

LOL.
The  logic-bending in wordsmithing aside, your argument fails.
Flynn was asked a entrapment question which the interrogators already knew the answer to because the FBI had tapped his phone.! The only purpose for asking the question was to create a crime of “ lying” to the FBI. The phone tap was illegal. Evidence, among others, that the prosecutors withheld.  Hence the change of mind by Justice.
Judge Sullivan makes the final call.

[kiidcarter8]

On Flynn and the plea:


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/10/01/smart-move-flynn-lawyer-tells-judge-motive-behind-why-flynn-took-guilty-plea/


I am not up on the entire matter but offer this up if you care to sift through.

[Hairy Lime]

I claim no legal expertise,  but doesn't pleading guilty mean you have openly admitted your guilt?    Help us out here,  legal experts!   I need to find ways to tart up my tautologies!

SCOTUS on Wednesday threw out the New Jersey case called Bridgegate where two state political appointees were charged with abuse of power and both pled guilty. But the UNANIMOUS  ruled the prosecutors made up a crime to punish political opponents. The Flynn case has different circumstances  the Justice Department now  says the Government used its force to prosecute and punish a political opponent.

Their guilty plea is still an admission of the underlying facts. They could only appeal on the issue of whether the underlying facts constituted a crime. No one is arguing that the facts Flynn admitted did not constitute a crime. The claim was apparently that the Trump justice department charged a Trump loyalist and Trump administration official without sufficient prediction or connection between the questioning and the investigation. Because, apparently,  asking someone under investigation for contacts with Russia about contacts with Russia is not connected with the investigation about contacts with Russia.

LOL.
The  logic-bending in wordsmithing aside, your argument fails.
Flynn was asked a entrapment question which the interrogators already knew the answer to because the FBI had tapped his phone.! The only purpose for asking the question was to create a crime of “ lying” to the FBI. The phone tap was illegal. Evidence, among others, that the prosecutors withheld.  Hence the change of mind by Justice.
Judge Sullivan makes the final call.

The phone tap was not illegal, there was a warrant. And yes, law enforcement uses the perjury trap as an investigative tool all the time,.precisely as they used it here: to obtain the cooperation of an unwilling witness.

[josh]

Remember the percentages of the aged you requested (because you did not do your own work, again, which showed a whopping 2% difference between Sweden and Norway? Why did Norway's elderly not die at the same rate as Sweden's?


I never asked that.

You are so full of shit.

[josh]

Tell me again which half of the Sweden story I have not been telling.

From the IMF:

"(T)his is what the International Monetary Fund expects from other European countries:

ECONOMIC CONTRACTION
SWEDEN   6.9-9.7%
ITALY   9.1%
SPAIN   8%
FRANCE   7.2%
UK      7%
GERMANY   6.5%
DENMARK   6.5%
NORWAY   6.3%
FINLAND   6%
[/b]Note Finland, Norway, and Denmark, as ever.

Sweden’s central bank, the Riksbank, gave two possible scenarios for the economic outlook in 2020, which it said “depend on how long the spread of infection continues and on how long the restrictions implemented to slow it down are in place.” Both possible economic outcomes are bleak.

In the first scenario (scenario A in the chart below), gross domestic product contracts by 6.9% in 2020 before rebounding to grow 4.6% in 2021. In a more negative prediction (scenario B), GDP could contract by 9.7% and a recovery could be slower with the economy growing 1.7% in 2021.

~CNBC

"We are starting to near 3,000 deceased, a horrifyingly large number," noted the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, Anders Tegnell, at a press conference on Wednesday.

Tegnell, who has been leading the country's COVID-19 response and previously defended the nation's decision not to impose a lockdown, this week admitted he was "not convinced" the unconventional anti-lockdown strategy was the best option to take.

~Newsweek

[REDSTATEWARD]

I claim no legal expertise,  but doesn't pleading guilty mean you have openly admitted your guilt?    Help us out here,  legal experts!   I need to find ways to tart up my tautologies!

SCOTUS on Wednesday threw out the New Jersey case called Bridgegate where two state political appointees were charged with abuse of power and both pled guilty. But the UNANIMOUS  ruled the prosecutors made up a crime to punish political opponents. The Flynn case has different circumstances  the Justice Department now  says the Government used its force to prosecute and punish a political opponent.

Their guilty plea is still an admission of the underlying facts. They could only appeal on the issue of whether the underlying facts constituted a crime. No one is arguing that the facts Flynn admitted did not constitute a crime. The claim was apparently that the Trump justice department charged a Trump loyalist and Trump administration official without sufficient prediction or connection between the questioning and the investigation. Because, apparently,  asking someone under investigation for contacts with Russia about contacts with Russia is not connected with the investigation about contacts with Russia.

LOL.
The  logic-bending in wordsmithing aside, your argument fails.
Flynn was asked a entrapment question which the interrogators already knew the answer to because the FBI had tapped his phone.! The only purpose for asking the question was to create a crime of “ lying” to the FBI. The phone tap was illegal. Evidence, among others, that the prosecutors withheld.  Hence the change of mind by Justice.
Judge Sullivan makes the final call.

The phone tap was not illegal, there was a warrant. And yes, law enforcement uses the perjury trap as an investigative tool all the time,.precisely as they used it here: to obtain the cooperation of an unwilling witness.

LOL

Even after its misconduct the prosecution admitted it had no case for collusion. So Comey maneuvered to get a Special prosecutor whose parameters would be to look for finding crimes, ANY crimes, even made up ones. Hence the Flynn case among others like Paige, Manafort, Stone, etc.
As is now clear  Mueller really was engaging in a coverup of Justice and FBI misconduct.
Pretty sleazy.

[NeedsAdjustments]

The phone tap was illegal.

The Justice Department IG, in a report ordered by Barr and touted by him and other Trumpists, came to the exact opposite conclusion all of a few months ago.

What exactly changed since then?

[NeedsAdjustments]

Even after their misconduct the prosecution admitted it had no case for collusion. So Comey maneuvered to get a Special prosecutor whose parameters for finding crimes, ANY crimes, even made up ones. Hence the Flynn case among others, Paige, Manafort, Stone, etc.
in fact Mueller really was engaging in a coverup of Justice and FBI misconduct.
Pretty sleazy.

Tinfoil hat bullshit.

[bodiddley]

KrugMan:

On Saturday The Washington Post reported that in late March Trump was unhappy with epidemiological models suggesting a death toll over 100,000 — which, by the way, now seems highly likely. So the White House created its own team led by Kevin Hassett, whom The Post describes as “a former chairman of Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers with no background in infectious diseases.” And this team produced an analysis Trump aides interpreted as implying a much lower death toll.

What The Post didn’t say was that aside from not having any background in epidemiology, Hassett has an, um, interesting record as an economist...

Who goes on to trash Hassert's consistent record of being wrong for 20 years.
(no housing bubble under W Bush; Obama rescue would lead to hyperinflation, etc).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html

[josh]

Jennifer L Kasten, MD, MSc, MSc

An epidemiological comparison of Norway and Sweden: the best natural COVID-19 experiment possible, minus a time machine.
...
THE RESULTS

Current *epidemiology* scorecard: Norway by a mile. Not even close. Sweden had 1.4x as many cases per million, 6.4x as many deaths per million, and their epidemic has lasted at least 3 weeks longer, with serious worries about Sweden missing cases (check out those relative % positives down below, whoa). The data's below. And yet...antibodies.
...
DATA

Norway
- Aggressive testing discovered 7710 cases / 169,124 tests (4.6% tests were positive).
- That's 1422 cases/ million Norwegians
- 207 deaths (38 / million Norwegians died)
- Epidemic curve peaked on March 28; deaths peaked on April 7 [Note: ignore "Monday bumps" in Scandinavia since many cases/deaths are not reported on the weekend- Monday gets 3 days' worth]
- Fraction of population exposed/immune: Unknown

Sweden
- Testing discovered 20,302 cases / 119,500 tests (17.0% tests were positive)
- That's 2010 cases / million Swedes
- 2462 deaths (244 / million Swedes died)
- Epidemic curve potentially peaked April 24; deaths potentially peaked in the same week
- Fraction of population exposed/immune: per chief epidemiologist, "25% of Stockholm is potentially immune; 27% of health care workers are"

This was April 30th.

244 deaths per million in Sweden.
38 deaths per million in Norway.

Yesterday was May 7th, a week later.
301 deaths per million in Sweden.
40 deaths per million in Norway.

In a WEEK, Sweden had 57 deaths per million![/b[

57 to 2.

Still waiting for your answer to this question, Kid:

How many deaths is a million jobs worth? Or how many jobs is a death worth?

[josh]

Remember the percentages of the aged you requested (because you did not do your own work, again, which showed a whopping 2% difference between Sweden and Norway? Why did Norway's elderly not die at the same rate as Sweden's?


I never asked that.

Maybe Josh can tell us if Sweden HAS more elderly than Norway, than Denmark - and if more or less live in urban setting.

Sweden's got 19.9% of its population over 65.
Finland's at 21.9%.
Denmark's at 19.6%.
Norway's at a mere 17.2%, 85% of Sweden's. No, not enough to account for a 500% greater rate.

Stockholm has about 260k more people than Copenhagen. Another 90k down to Helsinki. And 200k further to Oslo.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/finland/

p.s. The US is at 16%. But, for example, there are 70 deaths at the Veterans Home in Holyoke and 31 in Chelsea. But in Laconia, NH, the number is 0. They buttoned down earlier than the other two.

[josh]

Then there was this bit of incisive reasoning.

So, if there is a far higher percentage of deaths in the nursing homes in Sweden (of total population, of elderly population) than in Norway, Finland, or Denmark, and you don't attribute it to the failure to shut things down, Kid, then to what do you attribute it?

57 to 2 additional deaths per million in just a week.

Inquiring minds want to know.

90% are over age 70

Just 300 of the 3000 that have dies are 69 or younger

They have the same nursing home problem as the US - maybe not even as bad.

Old people? Fuck 'em! They will die soon enough, 'miright?

Not nearly the matter at all

And I don't think the nursing home deaths are due to the open policy

Don't you think 300 is a SMALL number to have died from this across the Swedish nation, among the "younger" set

Get all the facts next time, fact guy.

[kiidcarter8]

I think you are still not fully informed on Sweden.  You think they had no "lockdown", no recommendations to their public at all.  Not the case.


Sweden also had 2000 citizens in Iran, about 50,000 in total abroad that had to return.

Not unlike the US in this respect.


Much of the international coverage was neutral, but some of it also contained criticism,[196] and in some cases was accused of being "fake news".[197] Many foreign news outlets described Sweden as pursuing a herd immunity strategy,[196] including US president Donald Trump, who in a press briefing told the assembled media that Sweden was 'suffering very greatly' due to what he referred to as 'the herd', and that the US, if it had not taken much stricter social distancing measures, 'would have lost hundreds of thousands more people'.[198][199] Responding partly to Trump's remarks, which she described by using the word ‘misinformation’, Swedish foreign minister Ann Linde said that the ‘so-called Swedish strategy’ was one of many myths about Sweden, and described it as ‘absolutely false’. Linde said that the Swedish goal was no different from most other countries; to save lives, hinder the spread of the virus and make the situation manageable for the health system.



It's been overblown - and you - led by the nose.  NUMBERS need to be compared with what may have occurred had a different path been taken - not to neighbors numbers. 

Bringing travelers home - and dealing with them upon return - may be your bugaboo (as it is in the US).  Maybe Sweden could have done better in this respect.  But as with the US, how this virus spreads was not fully known at the time travelers were returning.

[kiidcarter8]

Protecting the elderly is where Sweden has been most critical of itself

Its been reported that there was subpar PPE in nursing homes there.  Even non-existent at times early on.

But measures WERE taken, contrary to what Needs has put forth here.  Recommendations were for those over 70 to "limit close contact with other people" - and schools were kept open with knowledge that grandparents would then not be necessary to care for their lower school-aged grandkids.

[kiidcarter8]

That's it for now.  Taking a wait and see on being critical of Sweden.