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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1998342 times)

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37036 on: June 06, 2020, 11:32:14 PM »

Cap I think Fox distorts its news shows to further a politcal view. Ailes created Fox to protect and promote Republican interests. And thats what it does. And prime time talking heads (opinion not news), Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham are totally in the Trump bag. IMO there is no objectivity on prime time Fox. Again they know they're bullshitting but they don't care. They feed the base a lot of red meat even if it ultimately gives them heart disease.

MSNBC editorial take is almost a mirror political image, but I do not think they distort facts to shape it to a political view. They promote a liberal agenda. And they are selective in their presentations. But knowing the biases I still generally trust their take 

CNN is reasonably neutral in its presentation of facts but it does have an anti-Trump feel to it. but then again Trump has been trying to destroy dissent and free speech in this country for 3 years, and has bashed CNN as fake news, so a spirited defense is IMO warranted.

and I realize you can rationalize the MSNBC/Fox biases as a wash, but one is far more toxic than the other.

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS

vs

OAN, FOX NEWS, NEWSMAX
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37037 on: June 06, 2020, 11:39:17 PM »

http://www.salon.com/2020/06/06/havent-gotten-your-unemployment-check-thats-intentional/

I wonder how the bullshit merchants on the cracker right are spinning this story.
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37038 on: June 06, 2020, 11:43:27 PM »


Which begs the question:

Why hasn't anything been done about it in 55 years?

How many Presidents?   including a Black one for 8 long years!
How many Governors?
How many Mayors?
How many generations of citizens?

People like you denying that it was an issue.

Didn't you see the stats a few minutes ago? As recently as 2014, only a third of Americans believed that there was a problem with blacks being victims of police violence more often than whites.

Changing people's opinions is hard.

And when the primary obstacle to getting reform is a party that refuses to be party to reforms, then having a Democratic president is worth about a bucket of warm spit legislatively.

Also... soooo many problems! Trying to get them all addressed in a 2 year period was exhausting and impossible,

Could also be that people, unless it directly affects them, are usually not going to risk their jobs and lives for any one, or any thing.
And, in America, probably working so hard to keep the bosses happy, keep their jobs, be all things to all people, pay a mortgage, raise a family, that they don't have time anyway.

Way to duck the facts, again.

We’re finding the time now.

No sign so far of letting up.

George Floyd's brother Terrence is trying to tell you;

"In every case of police brutality, the same thing has been happening. Y'all protest, y'all destroy stuff," Terrence said to protesters in Minneapolis this week. "Let's do this another way."

 http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/george-floyds-brother-set-to-testify-in-house-hearing-on-police-brutality/ar-BB1584qN?li=AAgfYrC&OCID=AVRES000
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37039 on: June 06, 2020, 11:48:48 PM »

The streets were dominated again tonight. This is leading to changes in policy on local and state levels, new bills in Congress, conversations that were impossible two weeks ago that have been decades over due, not to mention huge royalty spikes for groups like Rage Against the Machine and KRS1.

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/george-floyd-blm-protest-washington-304635

Rats stayed in their bunker in their cage. Which is now appropriately festooned with crime scene tape. We’re going to need a second opinion from some of those Senators, especially in light of the evidence they were being bought off.



I heard proximity to trump can cause you to have to destroy a whole workday worth of PPE.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37040 on: June 06, 2020, 11:51:41 PM »

If republicans hadn’t fucked up so many things all at the same time, they might be on top of some little piece of it, but they did, so they’re not.
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bankshot1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37041 on: June 07, 2020, 12:14:33 AM »

Cap I think Fox distorts its news shows to further a politcal view. Ailes created Fox to protect and promote Republican interests. And thats what it does. And prime time talking heads (opinion not news), Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham are totally in the Trump bag. IMO there is no objectivity on prime time Fox. Again they know they're bullshitting but they don't care. They feed the base a lot of red meat even if it ultimately gives them heart disease.

MSNBC editorial take is almost a mirror political image, but I do not think they distort facts to shape it to a political view. They promote a liberal agenda. And they are selective in their presentations. But knowing the biases I still generally trust their take 

CNN is reasonably neutral in its presentation of facts but it does have an anti-Trump feel to it. but then again Trump has been trying to destroy dissent and free speech in this country for 3 years, and has bashed CNN as fake news, so a spirited defense is IMO warranted.

and I realize you can rationalize the MSNBC/Fox biases as a wash, but one is far more toxic than the other.

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS

vs

OAN, FOX NEWS, NEWSMAX

kid

As mentioned upthread I can barely watch the garbage that Fox tries to pass for fair and balanced news and analysis, but I don't watch/listen or pay attention to OAN or Newsmax. What sources for news and information to best navigate your world is clearly your choice. But if those are the gold, silver and bronze standards for news and information for the deplorables and the Far-Reich you will remain ill-informed and ill-prepared to deal with the real world and real issues in a rational manner.   
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37042 on: June 07, 2020, 12:19:33 AM »

My problem with MSNBC remains their keeping Al Sharpton on the payroll and their holding him up as a paragon of morality and virtue.

I used to cover his protests in mid 80s and it was a bit of a clown show but that Al Sharpton has “evolved” from the track suited fat guy with the pompadour to a disciplined advocate for justice.

I worked with him on several occasions when he came to Washington DC the last being the 2013 50th anniversary March on Washington and my interns couldn’t believe he was the same guy I showed them in video clips from back in the day.

Old sins should not be forgotten and he is no paragon of virtue and morality but he is effective and in my world that is an endorsement.
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facilitatorn

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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37047 on: June 07, 2020, 03:45:35 AM »

Bo
Your lack of understanding and/or seeming intentional ignorance of NYC and how it is demographically different than other cities (SF, LA) is child-like. And your deflection of facts is disingenuous.

I've lived in Manhattan.  I've lived in Brooklyn.  I grew up 45 minutes outside NYC.  I know the area very well.

NYC is maybe the most traveled to city in the world,
Then again, maybe not.  Ever looked at a world atlas?  NYC is far from everywhere.
London & Paris get more incoming traffic than NYC (and I'm pretty sure their case and death load were significantly less).  NYC is 8th in world lists.

Hong Kong has the distinction of most traveled to city, and is as densely populated, reliant on public transport, etc. as NYC.  And HK happened to be pretty damned close to the original central China outbreak, which no one knew much of anything about at the time HK was threatened (Jan/Feb). 

The result: HK had a total of 1,103 infections and 4 deaths.
So tell me again how NYC is so unique and the virus was so inevitable ...

Quote
and it was infected for weeks and never knew it until the virus had spread. And then it exploded in a city that is massively populated, densely populated and hugely reliant on mass transportation, from a huge tri-state region. It had all the ingredients needed for quick and massive transmission. When the first outbreak was spotted north of NYC the city New Rochelle was put in lockdown immediately. But by then it was too late.

I was in Malta when the Northern Italy (and Iran) outbreaks flared up.  Circa Feb 20.  That's exactly when NY should have been preparing and implementing protective measures.  If C-19 went from China to Italy in one month, it was obvious it was heading throughout borderless Europe and on to America (which was going to get it from both Asia and Europe).

When the first New Rochelle case turned up March 2, Cuomo waited 8+ days before reacting, at which point the number of cases was over 100.  The "containment zone" they set up was too late and wholly inadequate.  A 1 mile radius that banned large gatherings essentially.  With no quarantine, no lockdown.

Again, the virus has gone from China --> Europe --> Westchester County in 6 weeks, but you don't take actions to lockdown NYC and stem or stop air travel??  There was a lot of lead time and little to nothing was done.

NYC and the US itself would have had a very very different viral outcome if when the Italy outbreak occurred, Cuomo and Trump had severely restricted, or better yet stopped, flights to/from Europe.  It's even a much different outcome if once the New Rochelle cases turned up on NYC's doorstep if strenuous and effective action was taken in NYC.  But they only went in for half measures in New Rochelle.  Oops.

You wait until you have a number of cases and the infection is already in your city and of course it's too late.  You take early protective measures and you can contain and control the disease.  For the reasons you cite about demography and travel, when the virus is raging in China and especially in Italy, you know it's coming to NYC soon enough.  So you take protective measures early and forcefully and save lives.  Didnt happen.  Slo-mo Cuomo failed.  I don't care how great a guy he was in coping with his failure. When his leadership was needed he failed, leading to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

1,103 cases and 4 deaths v. 200,0000 cases and 20,000 deaths*

Cuomo allowed 400,000 cases and 30,000 deaths in NY state.
And is basically responsible for a good part of the 165K cases & 12K deaths in NJ.

* for whatever reason the NY state COVID-19 website stopped providing daily number breakdowns after May 17, so I used the May 17 numbers and rounded up slightly.  https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-05172020-1.pdf
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 04:54:59 AM by bodiddley »
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37048 on: June 07, 2020, 04:00:26 AM »

Here's some interesting data:

NYC and basically all reported numbers worldwide represent only officially confirmed test positive cases.  As tests become cheaper and better while health care assets are freed up, a number of countries and regions are trying to ascertain the actual number of infected people and the true mortality rate and other key data points.

Large scale testing has shown that 12.3% of NY state residents and 19.9% of NYC residents likely contracted the virus.  Maybe Cuomo was just running a Sweden-style herd immunity project and forgot to tell anyone.

Their conclusion was that the NY state infection rate was that as of May 1st, NY state had 1.7 million actual cases or 10 times the number of confirmed cases.
And that the number of actual COVID-9 deaths was 23,000 -- almost twice the number of confirmed deaths.

So there is data that says you can take the official numbers in my last post and multiply the case rate by 10 and the death rate x 2.

Cuomo sure did a heckuva job!
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37049 on: June 07, 2020, 04:28:22 AM »

Cuomo making an effective executive decision (3/10/20) very quickly about reported outbreak of covid-19 cases in New Roc  and putting the effected area on lockdown to isolate the disease?

Very quickly?  That was 8 days after the case was confirmed.  A full week plus wasted.  Did they think the virus was taking a one week vacation?
And it wasn't a lockdown, there was a 1 mile containment zone set up.

Quote
He put NYC on lockdown 10 days (3/20) later when cases started to grow.

10 more days wasted.  If it's in New Rochelle, it's in NYC.
So that's 18 days from the virus confirmed in the NYC area.
Those 18 days were crucial, and Cuomo worked in slo-mo.

Quote
On 3/20/20 there were about 170 cases reported in NYC.

So it was clearly far too late.
Failure.

Quote
He never called it a hoax or a political ploy.

So he wasn't Trump.
Quite the defense.

Quote
I'm not sure how much sooner he could have shutdown the biggest city in the country absent data.

New Rochelle Case 1 was the key data point on March 2.
I left Athens for Moscow/Shanghai on March 2.  And the virus had spread throughout Italy, was moving all over Europe, and the Northern Italy lockdown was clearly too little too late.  I almost wasn't allowed to fly from Cyprus to Athens on Feb 29.

There was already a lot of evidence that the virus was highly transmissible, and lockdowns needed to be early to be effective (probably known for a thousand years, since the Knights Hospitalers founded the first modern hospital on Malta and borrowed the quarantine concept from maritime Venice).

And I haven't even gotten to Cuomo's nursing home bungle.
Something like 98.5% of people under 65 survive the virus, many without symptoms or requiring treatment.  Thew elderly were at greater risk -- just as they are every year from the common flu -- and Cuomo failed that challenge too.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 04:57:01 AM by bodiddley »
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