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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[CaptainCargo]

And this is the tricky part, how do you know if you heard news without nuance? It could be straight reporting. I think we have to trust what we see in the world as limited a perspective as that may be, and do our best to apply common sense to it. And again, I understand you could make the same comment and we would be 180" in disagreement.

Guys, we are talking about a STATE MEDIA level of disinformation coming from the Right.

Take the case of the 75 year old man in Buffalo who was violently shoved by police and is now in critical condition in the hospital.  We all saw the horrible video.  He was assaulted, and almost killed, blood coming out of his ears as he laid on the ground.

Enter OAN, in a report that draws absurd connections between the man and "Antifa" because they contend (with no evidence, citing only "sources") that he was using his phone to monitor police scanners and to block their communications, supposedly a tactic "Antifa" uses.  It then makes the leap from that not even tenuous connection to contend that his assault was a false flag operation, staged to make the police look bad.

Watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZrdldD8yeQ

There is so much here...the total lack of sources cited for what they contend.  Then their contentions not even pointing to what they say it does.  The report title and banner headline leave no room for interpretation; he was an ANTIFA PROVOCATEUR!  No question.  And of course, therefore it means the whole attack was staged...

Then enter Trump who repeats the totally baseless speculation (ie lies) on twitter.  Rinse, repeat.  Same thing happens with FOX.  And this is EVERY DAY these guys pumping out this total bullshit.

The idea that CNN is in that category is so laughably off base and without evidence that the contention is in itself biased.

Totally agree. That old codger was a threat to nobody. Walk around him Mr. Policeman.

I'm conservative. But that's not the dirty word some folks make it out to be.

Sorry but these days that says accomplice to me

Hate will do that.

[LarryBnDC]

Cap I think Fox distorts its news shows to further a politcal view. Ailes created Fox to protect and promote Republican interests. And thats what it does. And prime time talking heads (opinion not news), Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham are totally in the Trump bag. IMO there is no objectivity on prime time Fox. Again they know they're bullshitting but they don't care. They feed the base a lot of red meat even if it ultimately gives them heart disease.

MSNBC editorial take is almost a mirror political image, but I do not think they distort facts to shape it to a political view. They promote a liberal agenda. And they are selective in their presentations. But knowing the biases I still generally trust their take 

CNN is reasonably neutral in its presentation of facts but it does have an anti-Trump feel to it. but then again Trump has been trying to destroy dissent and free speech in this country for 3 years, and has bashed CNN as fake news, so a spirited defense is IMO warranted.

and I realize you can rationalize the MSNBC/Fox biases as a wash, but one is far more toxic than the other.

I respect your viewpoint Rich. But I am still firmly of the mind that both are incredible homers for their cause/s. And both unabashedly spout out biased propaganda by the truckload.

If I ever saw a news broadcaster these days (any broadcaster) just reporting the news without try to nuance it one way or the other I think I'd fall over with shock.

If a newscaster labels a lie by Trump a lie is that bias?

If a newscaster says the 75 year old guy in Buffalo from the Catholic Worker was using a “scanner” and then flopped on purpose so he could bang his head on the sidewalk and have blood pour from his ears just to make the cops and Trump look bad, would you say that’s biased?

There’s bias but it is asymmetrical.

That is a fact.

I'm not going to find tit for tat examples of the left media lying and knowing they were lying. They're out there but I'm not here to delineate some sort of line that proves one side is "worse" than the other. I'm here to say they are both biased and yes both lie. A definite and willful distortion of the truth is lying and both sides do it. I'm not here to rah rah rah for either of them. I find both sides of this media war "deplorables".

Why don’t you just do a search on media bias or are you satisfied to play the both sides do it, Pox on both their houses when it is factually not true.

That means you’re fully committed to one side.

[LarryBnDC]

Would the democrats still vote for a man that seems to be losing his grip on reality?]Would the democrats still vote for a man that seems to be losing his grip on reality?

Dems won't vote for Trump, even if he were sane. He's mean and crazy without an empathetic bone in his body.

Oh you mean.

Joe's just a little old. He may have lost a few miles off his fastball, but he's not senile or an authoritarian dictatorwannabe.

Yes friend I know democrats wouldn't turn to Trump even if they were on fire and he was water. My suggestion was would they come out and vote? Apathy can lose an election too.

Dude we ARE on fire and Trump is gasoline.

You’re all the way in the winger camp.

God bless

[LarryBnDC]

Thats a very reasonable and workable solution for a country where Trump got 46% of the vote in 2016.

You propose a dictatorship of the left.

I'm guessing that will not end well for those who are seeking long-term transformational societal change.

I think if you can invest some repubs you get a better chance of success.

But I could be dead wrong.

2 points. First, by all means hear from everyone. Start a full bore truth & reconciliation process on a formal federal scale.

Second, the republican party is far more criminal than ideological at this point in its evolution. It remains tied to the right mainly by right wing support for all kinds of criminality from its leaders and heroes. As a right wing, post-racists libertarians and conservatives can step into the huge smoking crater that needs to be where the republicans are standing and have built their abominations if the United States is to survive.

The cowardice of (most) of the Republican party and its lack of decency to stand up to the indecency, racsim and insanity of Trump  seems to be a death wish.

I understand traditional Repub conservatism, let capitalism run,  low taxes. low regs, self-regulate, strong defense, otherwise little gov't, no entitlements for the poor/needy and nice lawns. It all worked for them. But since the Great Depression they usually fuck-up and Dems have to fix shit. But they keep on breaking shit every time they get into power, because most of them suck at government. You'd think at some point they'd learn and let the Dems govern and let them concentrate on making some dough and two-putting. So maybe this recent episode of total repudiation of responsible governing is a cry for help to make sure no one in their right mind would vote for them. Tee off time is calling and governing is hard work.

This has been a generation’s long bust out.

Grafting on a cosmic scale.

The idea you just floated about the GOP you called a left wing dictatorship a few posts ago.

[Hamilton Samuels]

If you can find a major media source on the left that daily made a claim as outrageous as COVID being a hoax cooked up by Democrats, please post it.

I'll give you two examples off the top of my head. Judith Miller and Jason Blair. NYT.
Miller helped get Americans killed, btw.

Judith Miller was a mouthpiece for Dick Cheney

Jayson Blair was a skilled writer and a better liar.

He made the classic mistake of any amateur liar. He knew it wasn’t true.

Whereas folks on the far conservative spectrum don’t worry about being caught in a lie because they absolutely positively believe.

Just got to say, the discussion started as one in which people look to confirm their own biases. It was not intended to be a comparison of media outlets. However, once I was asked to provide an example of lies in media that was not Fox, I answered the question

As to who is more biased and dishonest regarding the left and the right, that's nothing that interests me.

[CaptainCargo]

Cap I think Fox distorts its news shows to further a politcal view. Ailes created Fox to protect and promote Republican interests. And thats what it does. And prime time talking heads (opinion not news), Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham are totally in the Trump bag. IMO there is no objectivity on prime time Fox. Again they know they're bullshitting but they don't care. They feed the base a lot of red meat even if it ultimately gives them heart disease.

MSNBC editorial take is almost a mirror political image, but I do not think they distort facts to shape it to a political view. They promote a liberal agenda. And they are selective in their presentations. But knowing the biases I still generally trust their take 

CNN is reasonably neutral in its presentation of facts but it does have an anti-Trump feel to it. but then again Trump has been trying to destroy dissent and free speech in this country for 3 years, and has bashed CNN as fake news, so a spirited defense is IMO warranted.

and I realize you can rationalize the MSNBC/Fox biases as a wash, but one is far more toxic than the other.

I respect your viewpoint Rich. But I am still firmly of the mind that both are incredible homers for their cause/s. And both unabashedly spout out biased propaganda by the truckload.

If I ever saw a news broadcaster these days (any broadcaster) just reporting the news without try to nuance it one way or the other I think I'd fall over with shock.

If a newscaster labels a lie by Trump a lie is that bias?

If a newscaster says the 75 year old guy in Buffalo from the Catholic Worker was using a “scanner” and then flopped on purpose so he could bang his head on the sidewalk and have blood pour from his ears just to make the cops and Trump look bad, would you say that’s biased?

There’s bias but it is asymmetrical.

That is a fact.

I'm not going to find tit for tat examples of the left media lying and knowing they were lying. They're out there but I'm not here to delineate some sort of line that proves one side is "worse" than the other. I'm here to say they are both biased and yes both lie. A definite and willful distortion of the truth is lying and both sides do it. I'm not here to rah rah rah for either of them. I find both sides of this media war "deplorables".

Why don’t you just do a search on media bias or are you satisfied to play the both sides do it, Pox on both their houses when it is factually not true.

That means you’re fully committed to one side.

Well it seems clear that you haven't done an honest search yourself. But this sort of attempt at bickering is what gets the animosity flowing. People sometimes get caught up in believing what they want to believe. And once out there there sometimes doesn't seem to be any way back. Moderates have historically been the center that holds society together. Moderates are few and far between these days.

Have a great day I have no wish to hate along with you. Or, to fight and engage in insults. And pound my stance without compromise and dialog. Screaming and banner waving is a game that gets you nowhere. Experience has taught me that.

So like I said, good luck to you and don't pop a gasket.

[Hamilton Samuels]

If you can find a major media source on the left that daily made a claim as outrageous as COVID being a hoax cooked up by Democrats, please post it.

I'll give you two examples off the top of my head. Judith Miller and Jason Blair. NYT.
Miller helped get Americans killed, btw.

Remember that the substance of Miller’s bullshit was a false idea that the republican leadership at the time was not a pack of raving cannibals with no plan. The republican leadership at the time, as they are now, were raving cannibals. They’ve never had a plan or a clue. The Times is a center-right outlet.

If you say so.

[bankshot1]

Thats a very reasonable and workable solution for a country where Trump got 46% of the vote in 2016.

You propose a dictatorship of the left.

I'm guessing that will not end well for those who are seeking long-term transformational societal change.

I think if you can invest some repubs you get a better chance of success.

But I could be dead wrong.

2 points. First, by all means hear from everyone. Start a full bore truth & reconciliation process on a formal federal scale.

Second, the republican party is far more criminal than ideological at this point in its evolution. It remains tied to the right mainly by right wing support for all kinds of criminality from its leaders and heroes. As a right wing, post-racists libertarians and conservatives can step into the huge smoking crater that needs to be where the republicans are standing and have built their abominations if the United States is to survive.

The cowardice of (most) of the Republican party and its lack of decency to stand up to the indecency, racsim and insanity of Trump  seems to be a death wish.

I understand traditional Repub conservatism, let capitalism run,  low taxes. low regs, self-regulate, strong defense, otherwise little gov't, no entitlements for the poor/needy and nice lawns. It all worked for them. But since the Great Depression they usually fuck-up and Dems have to fix shit. But they keep on breaking shit every time they get into power, because most of them suck at government. You'd think at some point they'd learn and let the Dems govern and let them concentrate on making some dough and two-putting. So maybe this recent episode of total repudiation of responsible governing is a cry for help to make sure no one in their right mind would vote for them. Tee off time is calling and governing is hard work.

This has been a generation’s long bust out.

Grafting on a cosmic scale.

The idea you just floated about the GOP you called a left wing dictatorship a few posts ago.

I was being a little facetious about the GOP in my recent post.

But they suck at governing and good at golf.

And as long as there are tax $ to steal, jobs to dole out, and government contracts to award, they'll never willingly leave.

Neither will the Dems.

Dems just steal a little less and spread the wealth a little fairer.

and dictatorship of the left or right is not a great solution if you believe in the concept of  the corruption of "absolute power" and checks and balances.

[Hamilton Samuels]

You're still missing my point. It's not about Fox or CNN or NYT. It's basic human psychology.

Here:https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201712/how-confirmation-bias-affects-you-every-single-day

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~baron/papers/dittoresp.pdf argues that liberals are less prone to cognitive bias.

conversely:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103116304024

But there is more than one kind of bias, which suggests that the impact of our biases may not be the same:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2017/may/26/negativity-bias-why-conservatives-are-more-swayed-by-threats-than-liberals

I found this piece particularly interesting, but that may just be my own biases!

https://www.firstpersonpolitics.com/confirmation-bias-how-the-left-resists-it-and-the-right-enlists-it/#.Xt_OcEVKg2w

That's more in line with my contention. We should ALL be aware of our tendency towards bias and work towards finding the truth before we rush to judgement.

[LarryBnDC]

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/george-floyds-lawyer-asks-united-nations-to-intervene-in-case/ar-BB15cvRn?li=AAgfYrC&OCID=AVRES000

George Floyd's Lawyer Asks United Nations to Intervene in Case

Ben Crump, the attorney representing George Floyd's family, has called on the United Nations to intervene and investigate the circumstances around the middle-aged black man's death and to make recommendations about law enforcement reforms.

"The United States of America has a long pattern and practice of depriving Black citizens of the fundamental human right to life ...The United States government has consistently failed to hold police accountable and did not bring Federal criminal charges even in cases with irrefutable video evidence. When a group of people of any nation have been systemically deprived of their universal human right to life by its government for decades, it must appeal to the international community for its support and to the United Nations for its intervention," Crump said.

Here's a vid of Malcolm X on TV in 1965 (being called Mr. X by the white interviewers) calling for that exact same thing.  For the UN to investigate human rights abuses in America v. black people.

I'd rather we have a "Kerner" style biparisan multi-racial commission than ask the Russians and Chinese to critique and provide solemn guidance and provide pointers to help us solve our racial problems, societal ills and the unfairness in our soceity.

But to borrow and paraphrase the musing of a wise man, "I'm sure they will mean well."

perhaps we can get North Korea's thoughts as well.

Mr Crump might be better served talking with the Biden camp than the Putin or Xi representatives.

Bi partisan?

With what Republican?

Fuck a study you know what to do.

I'm not ready to damn all Repubs, just most of them.

And I know what to do-VOTE.

And work for your self-interest

so as I've posted a few gazillion times

Strategize, organize, register voters, and VOTE.

Other than that I don't know all the the programs and reforms and resources that are needed to lead to justice and change hate to understanding.

But pols and social scientists and professors and municipal planners and communities and people might address needs and resources and how to attack the problem.

So a Biden Admin organized bi-partisan study with some inputs and thoughts from Repubs might be helpful.

And granted the list is not long, but Mitt, Gen'l Powell, George W Bush George Will, et would add some bi-partisan flavor to a fact-finding solution seeking study

I might even put Susan Collins on a short list to wring her hands in sympathy.

YMMV

fwiw my post was about Crump going to the UN where despotism and abusive governments abusing their citizens are the norm, and seeking guidance there for the problems in the US. Struck me as just bullshit PR.

Happy motoring

Yeah.

When a party’s electoral strategy depends on fewer people voting it means they know their policies suck for most Americans.


The GOP is corrupt beyond redemption.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/georgia-secretary-state-launches-investigation-after-unacceptable-voting-problems-n1228541?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_lw

[Hamilton Samuels]

You're kidding, right? You don't see why an innocent man had his life threatened by people worked into a frenzy by what they found in their news feeds and on Facebook, LinkedIn, et alia?

Stunning.

Journalists weren't pointing to the innocent man.  It was random people on the internet who thought they had done some good detective work. 

The news that a man on his bike was assaulting people posting BLM material was correct.  Maybe ask yourself what information sources whipped that man into a such a frenzy that would cause him to physically assault teenagers.

So I still don't get your point.  If you think I am arguing "only conservatives behave badly on the internet" you are willfully misreading what I am saying so that you can occupy a position that you can defend.

Sorry, but you have done nothing but react to assertions that I've never made. Guess you'll remain confused, because I have pretty clear from the beginning.

PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS. NOT JUST JOURNALISTS seek to confirm their biases a and then take action based upon what they BELIEVE to be true, without letting the truth actually come to the fore.

[bambu.]

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.
No full authority of society, society is obviously revolted.

Two deceased Black men.
One a model citizen...seemingly 'forgotten'.
The other almost exalted to 'sainthood'..."global anti-racism protests".

Now apparently a "George Floyd Day" is being proposed.
My new no1 radio host, Benny says "No"...will be detailing 'violent criminal record' today. 

[Hamilton Samuels]

If you can find a major media source on the left that daily made a claim as outrageous as COVID being a hoax cooked up by Democrats, please post it.

I'll give you two examples off the top of my head. Judith Miller and Jason Blair. NYT.
Miller helped get Americans killed, btw.

Weak.  Again, the argument isn't that there aren't any bad journalists in these organizations.  Blair's plagiarism and falsehoods about his own biography isn't remotely comparable to an entire cable news channel's fact free misrepresentation of a global pandemic purely because it provides political cover for the "president" they support.

Sorry, I think its pat bullshit to say "both sides do it" when you can't actually provide an example.  There is no equivalent on the Left to the fact-free state media universe Conservatives are able to live in.

There you again, framing the conversation as you wish to see it, not as it was from the beginning.

I will say this. You've certainly displayed your own biases here today.

[Hairy Lime]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/politics/trump-buffalo-protester-set-up-tweet/index.html

Complete refusal to lead by most GOP senators.

TWO of them gave worthwhile answers, instead of ducking. One of those even engaged in fuller, honest commentary. Most? Duck.

Yeah but you know Obama tweeted out total bullshit he saw on CNN all the time so...both sides do it.

CNN amx.OAN are not comparable.

[Hairy Lime]

Poll puts Trump down 14 points to Biden in general election showdown

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/poll-trump-down-14-points-to-biden-in-general-election-showdown

before everyone dies of c19 or police brutality

.




That poll - some would call it an outlier - should right itself next week

General Election: Trump vs. Biden   The Hill/HarrisX   Biden 47, Trump 37   Biden +10
General Election: Trump vs. Biden   CNN   Biden 55, Trump 41   Biden +14

Not much of an outlier.

And yes, it should correct itself, perhaps to Biden +18.

Hillary also had the election sewn up before the voting began

Biden is not Clinton. He does not have her massive negative polling. Voters who dislike both either stayed home or voted for Trump bigly. The dynamic that got him those votes works against him this time. And the type of.October Surprise that gutted Clinton is just not there for Biden.

You could be right. But I think Biden is doting into senility. Not sure if he will last until November. Would the democrats still vote for a man that seems to be losing his grip on reality?

Dude, the option is Trump.