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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2086346 times)

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37500 on: June 09, 2020, 06:55:22 PM »


I'm not going to find tit for tat examples of the left media lying and knowing they were lying. They're out there but I'm not here to delineate some sort of line that proves one side is "worse" than the other. I'm here to say they are both biased and yes both lie. A definite and willful distortion of the truth is lying and both sides do it. I'm not here to rah rah rah for either of them. I find both sides of this media war "deplorables".

Do you think this sort of political discussion - which side lies more - can ever find any real objective arbiter that both sides would accept as such?   For sure,  no one wants to come here and do heavy lifting on statistics,  fact checks,  independent press audits,  ad infinitum.   Most people have some sort of gut feel they go with,  or they point to the judgment call of their favored pundit or pundits.   Or they just listen to NPR and try to discern some patterns in the info flood.   

I live in a state full of conservatives  (Thune is one of my senators),  so I know some who are just decent honest people whose guiding principle is that federal level governance doesn't work well,  and less is generally more.   They find news feeds that feed that ideology,  and ignore those that don't.   I would ask them, and you:  do you think that approach will take you into a bubble (or an information silo,  as some call it)?   Does it make sense to put down the National Review on occasion,  and pick up The Guardian,  or Mother Jones?   Or should we all just read straight news,  like AP?

I'm a regular here,  so I am glad to see people coming over from sports threads,  and maybe toss in some perspectives that fall between Redstateward and Josh,  on the conservative end.   It could be fun to examine some underlying assumptions we have about government, capitalism,  freedom,  and the dignity of individuals. 
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Hamilton Samuels

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37501 on: June 09, 2020, 07:08:16 PM »

do you think that approach will take you into a bubble (or an information silo,  as some call it)?   Does it make sense to put down the National Review on occasion,  and pick up The Guardian,  or Mother Jones?   Or should we all just read straight news,  like AP?

This is my thought as well. I read as much as I can about issues of the day, and from as many sources as I can fit into a given day. I know plenty of people who love their bubbles and silos. One thing they usually don't like, however, is to be asked questions about their assertions and opinions. I just think it's responsible to entertain opposing views, but without necessarily accepting either one.

Asking questions when I read allows me to assertain what is likely fact, and is likely spin.

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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37502 on: June 09, 2020, 07:20:38 PM »

You're kidding, right? You don't see why an innocent man had his life threatened by people worked into a frenzy by what they found in their news feeds and on Facebook, LinkedIn, et alia?

Stunning.

Journalists weren't pointing to the innocent man.  It was random people on the internet who thought they had done some good detective work. 

The news that a man on his bike was assaulting people posting BLM material was correct.  Maybe ask yourself what information sources whipped that man into a such a frenzy that would cause him to physically assault teenagers.

So I still don't get your point.  If you think I am arguing "only conservatives behave badly on the internet" you are willfully misreading what I am saying so that you can occupy a position that you can defend.

Sorry, but you have done nothing but react to assertions that I've never made. Guess you'll remain confused, because I have pretty clear from the beginning.

PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS. NOT JUST JOURNALISTS seek to confirm their biases a and then take action based upon what they BELIEVE to be true, without letting the truth actually come to the fore.

It’s not bias, it’s an effort to be the first with information for the bragging rights.

People who dox folks are assholes regardless the stripe.

Like the former poster who threatened to put my history out on the web and I told the fucker to go ahead.



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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37503 on: June 09, 2020, 07:22:54 PM »

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.
No full authority of society, society is obviously revolted.

Two deceased Black men.
One a model citizen...seemingly 'forgotten'.
The other almost exalted to 'sainthood'..."global anti-racism protests".

Now apparently a "George Floyd Day" is being proposed.
My new no1 radio host, Benny says "No"...will be detailing 'violent criminal record' today.

What does that have to do with him being murdered by four police in full daylight and on camera?

The citizen was killed by a criminal.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37504 on: June 09, 2020, 07:23:24 PM »

Quote
Would the democrats still vote for a man that seems to be losing his grip on reality?]Would the democrats still vote for a man that seems to be losing his grip on reality?

Dems won't vote for Trump, even if he were sane. He's mean and crazy without an empathetic bone in his body.

Oh you mean.

Joe's just a little old. He may have lost a few miles off his fastball, but he's not senile or an authoritarian dictatorwannabe.

Yes friend I know democrats wouldn't turn to Trump even if they were on fire and he was water. My suggestion was would they come out and vote? Apathy can lose an election too.

It's not that we would not turn to him if he had the water.

It's that as soon as he reached out to us with the water, he would pull it back. Then he would insist he was only kidding and we can't take a joke. See also: DACA.

As for Apathy, look to Baltimore or Georgia. And look at the 2018 mid-term elections which came near a presidential cycle for turn out (albeit a low presidential year). There is reason to think this might be a bumper crop on at least one side.

And if the defunding talk about police departments continues, it might be a bumper crop over all!
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37505 on: June 09, 2020, 07:33:03 PM »

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.
No full authority of society, society is obviously revolted.

Two deceased Black men.
One a model citizen...seemingly 'forgotten'.
The other almost exalted to 'sainthood'..."global anti-racism protests".

Now apparently a "George Floyd Day" is being proposed.
My new no1 radio host, Benny says "No"...will be detailing 'violent criminal record' today.

What does that have to do with him being murdered by four police in full daylight and on camera?

The citizen was killed by a criminal.

Allegedly murdered by one police officer, aided and abetted by 3 others.

What does his lengthy and violet criminal record including armed home invasion where he held a gun to the stomach of a woman, and several stints in prison have to do with his killing? [All a matter of public record and now the funeral is over being detailed in the global media].
Not much except why he encountered the police at all.

Apparently some African Americans are none too happy about his seemingly being made a martyr and 'saint'.

Even got a "George Floyd Day" in Texas.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 07:50:48 PM by bambu. »
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37506 on: June 09, 2020, 07:34:10 PM »

And this is the tricky part, how do you know if you heard news without nuance? It could be straight reporting. I think we have to trust what we see in the world as limited a perspective as that may be, and do our best to apply common sense to it. And again, I understand you could make the same comment and we would be 180" in disagreement.

Guys, we are talking about a STATE MEDIA level of disinformation coming from the Right.

Take the case of the 75 year old man in Buffalo who was violently shoved by police and is now in critical condition in the hospital.  We all saw the horrible video.  He was assaulted, and almost killed, blood coming out of his ears as he laid on the ground.

Enter OAN, in a report that draws absurd connections between the man and "Antifa" because they contend (with no evidence, citing only "sources") that he was using his phone to monitor police scanners and to block their communications, supposedly a tactic "Antifa" uses.  It then makes the leap from that not even tenuous connection to contend that his assault was a false flag operation, staged to make the police look bad.

Watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZrdldD8yeQ

There is so much here...the total lack of sources cited for what they contend.  Then their contentions not even pointing to what they say it does.  The report title and banner headline leave no room for interpretation; he was an ANTIFA PROVOCATEUR!  No question.  And of course, therefore it means the whole attack was staged...

Then enter Trump who repeats the totally baseless speculation (ie lies) on twitter.  Rinse, repeat.  Same thing happens with FOX.  And this is EVERY DAY these guys pumping out this total bullshit.

The idea that CNN is in that category is so laughably off base and without evidence that the contention is in itself biased.


Totally agree. That old codger was a threat to nobody. Walk around him Mr. Policeman.

I'm conservative. But that's not the dirty word some folks make it out to be.

Sorry but these days that says accomplice to me

Hate will do that.

Cap, if a group of people consistently supports candidates who work to the detriment of your racial or ethnic or gender or sexual orientation groups, leading to unnecessary deaths, while those candidates deny there is racism, sexism, etc...

and that group of voters/supporters explains that their personal economic well-being is worth more to them than your life or your family's health, how would YOU feel toward those folks who were actively screwing you?

Would you be seeking to embrace them, with love? Would you consider them "equally biased?"

We still have children and adults being kept in unhealthy situations, families that remain separated against court orders, and a host of other issues. We daily have environmental rules being removed and/or conservative judges being shoved through regardless of competence.

The conservative branch of the Supreme Court already put through a change to the "right to remain silent" that says it only applies if you state that you are invoking that right or the police can use your silence against you. (Talk about an oxymoron!)



Is this the conservativism of which you speak?

If you support the imprisoning of children and forcible separation of children intended to keep them from their parents, keeping no record of where they were sent, then you should not be surprised if hate is directed your way.

Let alone systemic racism which your wing of the political spectrum denies exists.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37507 on: June 09, 2020, 07:39:48 PM »

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.

Two deceased Black men.

One was killed by a policeman.

The other was killed by a criminal.

The first has prompted an outcry against a broken authoritarian system.

What should the second prompt an outcry against?
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37508 on: June 09, 2020, 07:40:32 PM »

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/politics/trump-buffalo-protester-set-up-tweet/index.html

Complete refusal to lead by most GOP senators.

TWO of them gave worthwhile answers, instead of ducking. One of those even engaged in fuller, honest commentary. Most? Duck.

Yeah but you know Obama tweeted out total bullshit he saw on CNN all the time so...both sides do it.
CNN amx.OAN are not comparable.

He knows. That was facetious and not even true.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37509 on: June 09, 2020, 07:42:02 PM »

I'm a regular here,  so I am glad to see people coming over from sports threads,  and maybe toss in some perspectives that fall between Redstateward and Josh,  on the conservative end.   It could be fun to examine some underlying assumptions we have about government, capitalism,  freedom,  and the dignity of individuals.

There is no room between me and Ward on the conservative end.

We are like two peas in a pod.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37511 on: June 09, 2020, 07:49:16 PM »

"White silence is violence"   stated one placard in America recently, in a BLM protest.

"Use your White privilege to Dismantle the System" states another.

5/71 SLIDES 
Protesters participating in a Black Lives Matter rally march to Downtown Pittsburgh from Mount Washington in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S., on June 7.


#####

Sure look like 'race protests' to me.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 07:54:16 PM by bambu. »
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37512 on: June 09, 2020, 07:53:05 PM »

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.

Two deceased Black men.

One was killed by a policeman.

The other was killed by a criminal.

The first has prompted an outcry against a broken authoritarian system.

What should the second prompt an outcry against?

"Black lives only seeming to matter when the perpetrator is White".
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37513 on: June 09, 2020, 07:59:21 PM »

I'm a regular here,  so I am glad to see people coming over from sports threads,  and maybe toss in some perspectives that fall between Redstateward and Josh,  on the conservative end.   It could be fun to examine some underlying assumptions we have about government, capitalism,  freedom,  and the dignity of individuals.

There is no room between me and Ward on the conservative end.

We are like two peas in a pod.

Hahaha!   Yes,  my syntax got horribly snarled up in that sentence. 
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #37514 on: June 09, 2020, 08:00:01 PM »

Dorn was killed by criminals.  They have been caught and will be punished.  What's to protest?

Floyd was killed by police with the full authority of society acting as criminals.

You don't see a distinction?

No.

Two deceased Black men.

One was killed by a policeman.

The other was killed by a criminal.

The first has prompted an outcry against a broken authoritarian system.

What should the second prompt an outcry against?

"Black lives only seeming to matter when the perpetrator is White".

No.

Black Lives Matter when it is injustice causing them.

The protests apply when a black policeman does it.

It applies when the black person is killed, but the system chooses not to pursue it.

It's about SOCIETAL RACISM. The killing of Dorn was not about societal racism.

Still waiting for your answer to whether you understand the notion that there is no such thing as "objective."
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham
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