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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Echo4]

I suspect that this mayor will be going, too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/st-louis-mayor-reads-names-and-addresses-of-protesters-who-want-to-defund-police/ar-BB161s3X?li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR3fP85xPncNDsrWi2IJSbYU2bEzKSba2mYJNW5CaBRdA9hIeUrQTk2_T0U

[LarryBnDC]

But you are asking him to defend his views, Bank, thinking he is looking at the issue/events from your perspective

His opinions are born of deep seeded beliefs after many a battle.

You can't speak to a grown man the same as a child that hasn't been through much

Open your eyes, that he may open his a bit wider.  Yet expect that he may not - and be ok with that.

Fuck me!

Cool...

[Echo4]

Scratch Woodrow Wilson’s name from the Business College at Princeton.
Racist, ya know!
Seems like every day now we learn a founder or stalwart of the democrat party is now regarded as some sort of foul fellow.
Let’s see who is left?
FDR jailed  Japanese Americans and Harry Truman regularly used the N and K words in referring to blacks and Jews.
Where will it all end?

FDR was also anti-Jews, Ward.

  No he wasn’t. Neither was Truman. I guess you missed his decision on the state of Israel And his abolishment of discrimination "on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin" in the United States Armed Forces.

I'm not debating Truman. I'm making an assertion about his predecessor that is pretty common among those currently studying WWII and Roosevelt.

You're not Jewish, Ward, so I can understand your ignorance. But ignorance it is. FDR also locked up Jews in a detention camp during WWII and for a while after. Here is one source about his view of the Jewish people, among many. I will provide a couple more after the quote box.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-medoff-roosevelt-holocaust-20130407-story.html

In May 1943, President Franklin Roosevelt met with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill at the White House. It was 17 months after Pearl Harbor and a little more than a year before D-Day. The two Allied leaders reviewed the war effort to date and exchanged thoughts on their plans for the postwar era. At one point in the discussion, FDR offered what he called “the best way to settle the Jewish question.”

Vice President Henry Wallace, who noted the conversation in his diary, said Roosevelt spoke approvingly of a plan (recommended by geographer and Johns Hopkins University President Isaiah Bowman) “to spread the Jews thin all over the world.” The diary entry adds: “The president said he had tried this out in [Meriwether] County, Georgia [where Roosevelt lived in the 1920s] and at Hyde Park on the basis of adding four or five Jewish families at each place. He claimed that the local population would have no objection if there were no more than that.”
...
Why did the administration actively seek to discourage and disqualify Jewish refugees from coming to the United States? Why didn’t the president quietly tell his State Department (which administered the immigration system) to fill the quotas for Germany and Axis-occupied countries to the legal limit? That alone could have saved 190,000 lives. It would not have required a fight with Congress or the anti-immigration forces; it would have involved minimal political risk to the president.

Every president’s policy decisions are shaped by a variety of factors, some political, some personal. In Roosevelt’s case, a pattern of private remarks about Jews, some of which I recently discovered at the Central Zionist Archives in Jerusalem and from other sources, may be significant.

In 1923, as a member of the Harvard board of directors, Roosevelt decided there were too many Jewish students at the college and helped institute a quota to limit the number admitted. In 1938, he privately suggested that Jews in Poland were dominating the economy and were therefore to blame for provoking anti-Semitism there. In 1941, he remarked at a Cabinet meeting that there were too many Jews among federal employees in Oregon. In 1943, he told government officials in Allied-liberated North Africa that the number of local Jews in various professions “should be definitely limited” so as to “eliminate the specific and understandable complaints which the Germans bore towards the Jews in Germany.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/historian-new-evidence-shows-fdrs-bigotry-derailed-many-holocaust-rescue-plans/

[facilitatorn]

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/trump-losing-2020-election-342326

[Echo4]

As for Truman...

“The Jews, I find are very, very selfish,” Truman wrote on July 21. “They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the underdog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire.”

The defenses of this are... awful.

“The anti-Semitic comments were nothing new to historians,” said Alonzo Hamby, a Truman biographer and historian at Ohio University. “It was an outburst, rather like some other outbursts that Truman was capable of from time to time. It’s important to understand that Truman grew up in a small town and he absorbed the prevalent ethnic cliches.”

or

Sara Bloomfield, director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, agreed that “Truman’s sympathy for the plight of Jews was very apparent.” She added that Truman’s comments were “typical of a sort of cultural anti-Semitism that was common at that time in all parts of American society. This was an acceptable way to talk.”

Kind of like the comment from a former member of Congress on his referring to wetbacks on his ranch growing up:
"That's just what we called them. Don't mean anything by it."

It's not a defense.

It doesn't change what Truman did, vis-a-vis Israel or helping to repatriate Jewish people. FDR did some wonderful things, too. But it doesn't change what he chose not to do, whether in preventing Jews from moving here or refusing the M.S. St. Louis.

[LarryBnDC]

But you are asking him to defend his views, Bank, thinking he is looking at the issue/events from your perspective

His opinions are born of deep seeded beliefs after many a battle.

You can't speak to a grown man the same as a child that hasn't been through much

Open your eyes, that he may open his a bit wider.  Yet expect that he may not - and be ok with that.

I'm not asking knicks anything other than to define and be specific about what he means by GO BIG in 2020.

I want his perspective.

At that point i could agree or disagree.

I think my position is clear concerning 2020.

You act as if protesting in the 60s is anything like today.

Back in the day the movements were primarily black or primarily white

When have you seen this much energy massed for such a sustained amount of time across the racial and socioeconomic spectrum?

No, you go big by saying how’re you’re gonna save the economy by shoveling money down the hole not onto the elevator. Broaden the foundation of society.

For profit healthcare is no longer an argument. Get over it

Defund the Police and you know that doesn’t mean getting rid of all policing just reconfiguring public safety so every incident isn’t the landing at Anzio... put that on a bumper sticker.

Put an end of transforming the prison industrial complex into the immigration detention industrial complex.

Now. If I could supply the nuts and bolts of how to do it I would talking shit in here.

[Echo4]

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/trump-losing-2020-election-342326

Keep acting like the Dems are 10 points down.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Scratch Woodrow Wilson’s name from the Business College at Princeton.
Racist, ya know!
Seems like every day now we learn a founder or stalwart of the democrat party is now regarded as some sort of foul fellow.
Let’s see who is left?
FDR jailed  Japanese Americans and Harry Truman regularly used the N and K words in referring to blacks and Jews.
Where will it all end?

FDR was also anti-Jews, Ward.

  No he wasn’t. Neither was Truman. I guess you missed his decision on the state of Israel And his abolishment of discrimination "on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin" in the United States Armed Forces.

I'm not debating Truman. I'm making an assertion about his predecessor that is pretty common among those currently studying WWII and Roosevelt.

You're not Jewish, Ward, so I can understand your ignorance.

Say What?
So you spent all day on google researching FDR and the Jews and handpicked a few articles to buttress your position that FDR was anti-Semitic. So
why aren’t you calling for the renaming of the Roosevelt Room in the White House , or Roosevelt Island, or the scores of Bridges and Streets named in his honor?, to name just a few.
Do you think that the words you uncovered  that others said he made outweigh the rest of his history, like being elected President four times.?
You seem to have no trouble removing public memorials to other historic figures  whose behavior you now find repugnant.
Which returns us to my question, where is this going?

[Echo4]

Scratch Woodrow Wilson’s name from the Business College at Princeton.
Racist, ya know!
Seems like every day now we learn a founder or stalwart of the democrat party is now regarded as some sort of foul fellow.
Let’s see who is left?
FDR jailed  Japanese Americans and Harry Truman regularly used the N and K words in referring to blacks and Jews.
Where will it all end?

FDR was also anti-Jews, Ward.

  No he wasn’t. Neither was Truman. I guess you missed his decision on the state of Israel And his abolishment of discrimination "on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin" in the United States Armed Forces.

I'm not debating Truman. I'm making an assertion about his predecessor that is pretty common among those currently studying WWII and Roosevelt.

You're not Jewish, Ward, so I can understand your ignorance.

Say What?
So you spent all day on google researching FDR and the Jews and handpicked a few articles to buttress your position that FDR was anti-Semitic. So
why aren’t you calling for the renaming of the Roosevelt Room in the White House , or Roosevelt Island, or the scores of Bridges and Streets named in his honor?, to name just a few.
Do you think that the words you uncovered  that others said he made outweigh the rest of his history, like being elected President four times.?
You seem to have no trouble removing public memorials to other historic figures  whose behavior you now find repugnant.
Which returns us to my question, where is this going?

"all day" uh huh.

And you're late. Bambi already asked those stupid questions.

Why on Earth would his being antisemitic outweigh his having been elected four times?

But why on Earth would his having been elected four times outweigh his having also been antisemitic?

Not everybody is as simple as you are, Ward. Whether Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, TR, FDR, or Truman, they are all complicated men. I didn't call for Princeton to rename the Wilson School, but I understand why they did. I didn't call for Bryn Mawr College to rename the places that had born M. Carey Thomas's name, but I understand why they did it.

I teach history, Ward. This is not news to me, the way it seems to have been to you. I know you are prejudiced. So am I. When I call you a bigot, your feathers are ruffled (though I am sure you will deny it). When you call me a bigot, while I doubt your motives and I doubt your meaning, I know I have prejudices I have to work to overcome.

We can't all be as perfect as you are.

Ward, earlier today I posted a link to a case of vote-by-mail fraud that's being explored these days. When was the last time you (intentionally) posted a piece that supported the other side in one of the left-right disagreements?

What's next?! I don't know! While I wish I did, I am more excited to see it than not, because the white-bread driven approach this country has taken all of your life and mine sure isn't working as well or far as many people as you believe it has -- and I am talking about so much more than economics when I say that!

So... a far more serious answer than your bullshit response deserved, but there you have it.

[Echo4]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/28/charlie-crist-florida-desantis-coronavirus-sot-vpx-nr.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

Charlie Crist, expressing his disappointment and disagreement with the governor of Florida over masks.

[Echo4]

Here's another possible "what's next?"

[facilitatorn]

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/trump-losing-2020-election-342326

Keep acting like the Dems are 10 points down.

I’m playing to drive the slave and terror party, the mighty den of rapey thieves, trump stained republicans into the sea or their graves politically. The worse things are for republicans the better things are for The United States. We are ten points down still in places I need the good guys to win.

Scratch Woodrow Wilson’s name from the Business College at Princeton.
Racist, ya know!
Seems like every day now we learn a founder or stalwart of the democrat party is now regarded as some sort of foul fellow.
Let’s see who is left?
FDR jailed  Japanese Americans and Harry Truman regularly used the N and K words in referring to blacks and Jews.
Where will it all end?

FDR was also anti-Jews, Ward.

  No he wasn’t. Neither was Truman. I guess you missed his decision on the state of Israel And his abolishment of discrimination "on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin" in the United States Armed Forces.

I'm not debating Truman. I'm making an assertion about his predecessor that is pretty common among those currently studying WWII and Roosevelt.

You're not Jewish, Ward, so I can understand your ignorance.

Say What?
So you spent all day on google researching FDR and the Jews and handpicked a few articles to buttress your position that FDR was anti-Semitic. So
why aren’t you calling for the renaming of the Roosevelt Room in the White House , or Roosevelt Island, or the scores of Bridges and Streets named in his honor?, to name just a few.
Do you think that the words you uncovered  that others said he made outweigh the rest of his history, like being elected President four times.?
You seem to have no trouble removing public memorials to other historic figures  whose behavior you now find repugnant.
Which returns us to my question, where is this going?

Noting FDR was an anti-Semite does not negate that He was the peerless and pivotal leader of Antifa when, with the possible exception of this moment now, it mattered the most.

He also ushered in the socialism Red, Kiid, and their livelihoods depend on to this day despite the terror-traitor-republican-crime-spree working constantly to tear it down.  He dilly-dallied with his cousin.

We can appreciate him fully warts and all and keep his various monuments. It’s not hard.

Andrew Jackson is a piece of shit.

He can have a urinal next to the one with trump’s hideous face in it for visitors to piss on in an act of national reconciliation.

[LarryBnDC]

Fuck?

It’s barely July!

https://twitter.com/hotzoneme/status/1277111596440072193?s=21

[Echo4]

We've pointed this out before, but you (Ward and Bambi) have a hard time grasping it:

Robert E. Lee was not only a brutal slave owner, but a traitor to the country.

FDR was not only an antisemite but a person who worked hard to save the country.

Also, despite his antisemitic proclivities and his failure with the St. Louis, he still worked to save the Jews. Truman's antipathy towards the Jews was very real, but it, too, is very much countered by his actions. They worked beyond their personal biases.

I don't know that Wilson could see past his biases. Nothing in the record suggests that he did.

[LarryBnDC]

Trump as the American President is akin to a chimp with a machine gun.

From October 2019

https://exjournalistsunite.wordpress.com/2019/10/14/the-increasing-stupidity-of-their-arguments-tells-me-all-i-need-to-know/