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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Hamilton Samuels]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

Inane question, but simple put, you don't think they would be happy, do you?!

I have no idea what "happy" means to most people, so I can't answer your question.

I was just curious about the hypothetical situation that was proposed. If, in fact, suddenly all whites were black, where would be the conflict based on race?

IMO, the conflict would likely then strictly be economically driven. What values would change for most whites, once they are no longer white? I doubt very many. I would think they'd still think the way they think.

Truly white people would likely still find that way to show others how "superior" they are, regardless of their new skin tone. 

 

[Hamilton Samuels]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

There are no women on this forum.

And the testosterone infused arguments generally just lead to personal insults.

Newsflash -- heated arguments do not require testosterone.  (and given what I suspect is the average age on this forum,  and that testosterone level drops pretty steadily from age 30 onward,  I really doubt that little hormone is the culprit)

So... Twelve OLD Angry Men?

[barton]

Haha!   Yep,  my guess is that Boz,  Bo, and Kam are the youngest members who post in politics,  and none of them are all that young,  either.   I won't say my precise age,  but there's a famous Beatles song about it.   

[Echo4]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

That quip crossed my mind,  but I was able to infer his actual meaning which was what if white people woke up and experienced what it's like to be a discriminated against minority...

But...

That's their biggest fear!

It's their expectation.

Not all whites, obviously, but so many it is frightening/horrifying/depressing!

It's why the life span is declining - too many killing themselves (mostly indirectly by self-poison over the long term). We've discussed this before, at least briefly. I think it's a topic worth exploring.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-life-expectancy/us-life-expectancy-declining-due-to-more-deaths-in-middle-age-idUSKBN1Y02C7#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20data%2C%20life,mortality%20among%20the%20middle%20aged.

After rising for decades, life expectancy in the U.S. decreased for three straight years, driven by higher rates of death among middle aged Americans, a new study suggests.

Midlife all-cause mortality rates were increasing between 2010 and 2017, driven by higher numbers of deaths due to drug overdoses, alcohol abuse, suicides and organ system diseases, such as hypertension and diabetes, according to the report published in JAMA.

The argument is that it is despair over economics, but...

Economic hardship and the resulting despair may be to blame in those regions, Woolf suggested. “While it’s a little difficult to place the blame on despair directly, the living conditions causing despair are leading to other problems,” he explained. “For example if you live in an economically distressed community where income is flat and it’s hard to find jobs, that can lead to chronic stress, which is harmful to health.”

Noting that a pattern of increasing mortality in middle age is not seen in other high income countries, Woolf said this might be because “in other countries there are more support systems for people who fall on hard times. In America, families are left to their own devices to try to get by.”
...
“It is depressing,” Rowe said, “but I don’t think it’s much of a surprise. We knew the opioid epidemic was taking a major toll with 250,000 who have overdosed and died.”

What’s striking is that the decline in life expectancy isn’t the same for all age groups. “This is really evidence that mortality rates are increasing only in middle age while they’re continuing to decline in children, adolescents and people over 65,” Rowe said, noting that it’s occurring as mortality rates from cancer and stroke are declining.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/1/26/14340542/white-fear-trump-psychology-minority-majority

In August 2008, the Census Bureau released a report that predicted a seismic shift in American demographics: By 2050, minorities would make up more than 50 percent of the population and become the majority.

When Yale psychologist Jennifer Richeson heard about the report on NPR, she remembers thinking, “This is probably freaking somebody out.”

By “somebody,” she means white people.

Richeson’s studies on interracial interactions had taught her that when people are in the majority, the sense of their race is dormant. But the prospect of being in the minority can suddenly make white identity — and all the historical privilege that comes with it — salient. And, she guessed, the prospect of losing majority status was likely to make people (perhaps unconsciously) uneasy.

In other words, she wondered if white people would read the news of a coming “minority majority” shift as a threat, a “threat” powerful enough to change their thoughts and behavior.

In the years since, Richeson has tried to answer this question with a trove of experimental research. What she’s found is both unsettling and crucial to understanding politics in the era of President Donald Trump.

Her research — and the research of many other social scientists studying the rise of Trump, Brexit, and other examples of nationalistic backlash around the world — points to how the politics of inclusion will be challenged in the days ahead.

Perhaps one day social scientists will figure out how to get people of different backgrounds to live among one another and not be afraid. But for now, the perceived “threat” of demographic change is making voters fearful and, in turn, giving power to politicians who implicitly or explicitly stoke that fear. It’s a troubling problem crying out for an answer.

Note: This is not simply a Right vs. Left thing, either. From the article:

“THE POINT IS THAT PEOPLE WHO THINK OF THEMSELVES AS NOT PREJUDICED (AND LIBERAL) DEMONSTRATE THESE THREAT EFFECTS.”

And
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/21/pew-survey-whites-fearful-minority-country-will-weaken-american-culture/3217218002/

Almost half of white Americans say the USA becoming a majority nonwhite nation would "weaken American customs and values," a new Pew Research Center survey says.

The U.S. Census Bureau predicts that before 2050, the majority of the USA will be made up of minority populations. According to Pew's research, 46 percent of white people fear that would weaken U.S. culture.

A quarter of Hispanics and 18 percent of black people have similar fears. Forty percent of blacks and 46 percent of Hispanics say the shift would strengthen those customs and values.

[Hamilton Samuels]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

That quip crossed my mind,  but I was able to infer his actual meaning which was what if white people woke up and experienced what it's like to be a discriminated against minority...

 

That's a reasonable interpretation.

Some of us have experienced random acts of discrimination, but not in the same way---the daily trauma of being seen as "other" is not something that can be intellectualized, I believe.

I find that honest dialogue regarding race, religion, and politics has always been difficult for most of us.

[Echo4]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

Inane question, but simple put, you don't think they would be happy, do you?!

I have no idea what "happy" means to most people, so I can't answer your question.

I was just curious about the hypothetical situation that was proposed. If, in fact, suddenly all whites were black, where would be the conflict based on race?

IMO, the conflict would likely then strictly be economically driven. What values would change for most whites, once they are no longer white? I doubt very many. I would think they'd still think the way they think.

Truly white people would likely still find that way to show others how "superior" they are, regardless of their new skin tone.

Humans do a ton of Us vs. Them activity regardless of race. See also: Jews, NINA, Polish jokes, Michigan vs. Ohio, Town vs. Gown, and a host of other such things. We other people pretty effectively. While they are in decline now, the Ethnic-American club and its ilk dominated one facet of the American social scene for a long time. It was/is a way to support "our own," but also to make it clear who belongs and who does not.

Think about gingers.

[Echo4]

This is the Pew poll from 2019:
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/03/21/public-sees-an-america-in-decline-on-many-fronts/

Lots of powerful data in there, not just the minority/majority question. One example:



 

[Hamilton Samuels]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

Inane question, but simple put, you don't think they would be happy, do you?!

I have no idea what "happy" means to most people, so I can't answer your question.

I was just curious about the hypothetical situation that was proposed. If, in fact, suddenly all whites were black, where would be the conflict based on race?

IMO, the conflict would likely then strictly be economically driven. What values would change for most whites, once they are no longer white? I doubt very many. I would think they'd still think the way they think.

Truly white people would likely still find that way to show others how "superior" they are, regardless of their new skin tone.

Humans do a ton of Us vs. Them activity regardless of race. See also: Jews, NINA, Polish jokes, Michigan vs. Ohio, Town vs. Gown, and a host of other such things. We other people pretty effectively. While they are in decline now, the Ethnic-American club and its ilk dominated one facet of the American social scene for a long time. It was/is a way to support "our own," but also to make it clear who belongs and who does not.

Think about gingers.

I often thought about Ginger. And Mary Ann.But I was just a kid, then...

Seriously, then what you are saying is that it normal for humans to discriminate.

[Echo4]

If most white people were suddenly black they’d be fucked like the proverbial “fish out of water.”

In reverse most black people would be just fine because we already navigate through two different worlds.

But if whites were all then black,where'd be the conflict?

Inane question, but simple put, you don't think they would be happy, do you?!

I have no idea what "happy" means to most people, so I can't answer your question.

I was just curious about the hypothetical situation that was proposed. If, in fact, suddenly all whites were black, where would be the conflict based on race?

IMO, the conflict would likely then strictly be economically driven. What values would change for most whites, once they are no longer white? I doubt very many. I would think they'd still think the way they think.

Truly white people would likely still find that way to show others how "superior" they are, regardless of their new skin tone.

Humans do a ton of Us vs. Them activity regardless of race. See also: Jews, NINA, Polish jokes, Michigan vs. Ohio, Town vs. Gown, and a host of other such things. We other people pretty effectively. While they are in decline now, the Ethnic-American club and its ilk dominated one facet of the American social scene for a long time. It was/is a way to support "our own," but also to make it clear who belongs and who does not.

Think about gingers.

I often thought about Ginger. And Mary Ann.But I was just a kid, then...

Seriously, then what you are saying is that it normal for humans to discriminate.

Very.

We are not born racist. We are not even bigoted.

But we do seem to have an urge to feel superior to others, as that makes us feel better about ourselves. I could not tell you if that is hard-wired or a product of Western Culture (tm). I have studied the question and am not satisfied with the answer of the extent to which it is present in all other cultures, but elements of Japanese and Chinese culture suggest strongly that it is present there.

There are a lot of things that it is "normal" for humans to do, but which we have worked to overcome, to train us away from. I'm pretty sure that the desire to wipe out an offending party's group is "normal" for humans, or at least it used to be.

[Echo4]

One of the questions that keeps coming up, not just here, is "okay, so we have this problem - what should we do about it?"

And some of the folks are asking seriously!

Here is one set of answers for one type of institution, but the answers may help to generate ideas for other types, as well:
https://diverseeducation.com/article/182222/

[facilitatorn]

Haha!   Yep,  my guess is that Boz,  Bo, and Kam are the youngest members who post in politics,  and none of them are all that young,  either.   I won't say my precise age,  but there's a famous Beatles song about it.

“I Saw Her Standing There”?

That would make me 28 years your senior. If it’s the other one, I’m 19 years your junior.

Kiid and Bambi, through either dumb chance or fortunate misapprehension make a rare good point every now and then.

Red just smells bad with a stink that both precedes him and lingers long after he’s left.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

There are no women on this forum.

And the testosterone infused arguments generally just lead to personal insults.

Newsflash -- heated arguments do not require testosterone.  (and given what I suspect is the average age on this forum,  and that testosterone level drops pretty steadily from age 30 onward,  I really doubt that little hormone is the culprit)

Don’t forget  Barton  once passed a high school biology course.

[Echo4]

The issue of Woodrow Wilson's history seems to have prompted some... reactions as if this were a new topic coming out of the blue. This is a 7 year old article on the topic, no longer on BU's site so I had to dig a little for it. (Not too much - I knew where to dig.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20160221070645/http://www.bu.edu/professorvoices/2013/03/04/the-long-forgotten-racial-attitudes-and-policies-of-woodrow-wilson/

Two years after, the issue of removing Woodrow Wilson's name came to the fore:
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/eight-different-editorials-about-princetons-woodrow-wilson-controversy

It took 5 years to get there, but it has finally arrived.

Just don't think that it sprung out of nowhere.

[REDSTATEWARD]

We can appreciate him fully warts and all and keep his various monuments. It’s not hard.

Andrew Jackson is a piece of shit.

He can have a urinal next to the one with trump’s hideous face....

I think "warts" is key to this whole debate.   If they did more good than harm,  maybe keep monuments and street names and buildings, and put up plaques that describe how they were a mix of good and bad,  products of their historical era.   

Who would be in charge of ranking the “ warts”

[Hamilton Samuels]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

There are no women on this forum.

And the testosterone infused arguments generally just lead to personal insults.

Newsflash -- heated arguments do not require testosterone.  (and given what I suspect is the average age on this forum,  and that testosterone level drops pretty steadily from age 30 onward,  I really doubt that little hormone is the culprit)

Don’t forget  Barton  once passed a high school biology course.

Thanks for proving my point.  He's Henry Fonda and you're Lee J. Cobb.