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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Kam]

I prefer for every country in the '"Christian West" to be White majority, and every governing parliament in those countries to be White majority.

I find several parts of your post disturbing but at least you're not trying to hide what you are.  I'm guessing you are white.  And since none of us get to choose what we are born as i'm guessing you understand that being white is more advantageous in society.  This my friend, is the white privilege you profess not to understand. 

[Kam]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

No one seems to ever concede that someone else may have a valid point.

It's rare but I had an exchange most recently with bambu where he admitted that I had presented new information to him.  I think in general that yelling or insulting someone is a sure fire way to make sure your point is not heard. 

[Hamilton Samuels]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

No one seems to ever concede that someone else may have a valid point.

It's rare but I had an exchange most recently with bambu where he admitted that I had presented new information to him.  I think in general that yelling or insulting someone is a sure fire way to make sure your point is not heard.

Agreed.

[Kam]

This did not age well

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1263421400519454720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1276539228025995266%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D59891page%3D49

[Echo4]

No one seems to ever concede that someone else may have a valid point.

I post articles that present points that are counter to my prior beliefs or at least challenge them. Last time was way back... yesterday or the day before, with the piece about Patterson NJ and their vote-by-mail fraud.

I post retractions and apologies for errors.

But... "a valid point" requires something to concede to and far more often than not, the claims being made are absurd on things like climate, on Trump's decisions, on whether or not there is systemic racism.

I'll concede that they may be right when they have a shred of evidence that supports their position, UNO. But not just because they say they are right.

[Echo4]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

No one seems to ever concede that someone else may have a valid point.

It's rare but I had an exchange most recently with bambu where he admitted that I had presented new information to him.  I think in general that yelling or insulting someone is a sure fire way to make sure your point is not heard.

Agreed.

I find that careful, point by point rebuttals here do just as well as yelling or insulting for certain members of our group.

Do you disagree?

[Echo4]

This did not age well

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1263421400519454720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1276539228025995266%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D59891page%3D49

May it be the worst of the words he has to eat.

I do wish he would admit he was wrong.

[facilitatorn]

I preserve my salty penetrating snark for posts that are not worth refuting or are self refuting.

To do more than that, there needs to be a premise relating to objects or processes in the post developed enough to warrant a response. I rag on fools to signify that their post or series of posts has failed.

When there is something to explore, I give it a whirl. Sometimes it leads to a bit of reasonable conversation. Sometimes it finds the edge of reasonable conversation and pushes right past it.

LOLs in response to sourced and developed posts or strings of posts get what they deserve as do regurgitations of misnumbered radio hosts and other white power death cult personalities like Tucker and Hannity.

There’s no one here I’ve posted at rudely without first having read their posts and formed an opinion about for several years. Anyone who gets reflexive clap backs from me has had ample time to develop any benefit of doubt.

Red occasionally references a correct statute in relation to separation of powers in various forms.

Bambi closer to the sphere of reason on health care than he is on almost anything else and he reminds me of my crazy uncle while he was losing his mind before he died.

Kiid seems to be undergoing a crisis and resisting some kind of metamorphosis. Let’s go!!!!!

It’s a salty old penetrating world.

Keep your non-white, not pointy hood up and your mask on when you leave your den, but get outside,

and keep marching.

[barton]

We've pointed this out before, but you (Ward and Bambi) have a hard time grasping it:

Robert E. Lee was not only a brutal slave owner, but a traitor to the country.

FDR was not only an antisemite but a person who worked hard to save the country.

Also, despite his antisemitic proclivities and his failure with the St. Louis, he still worked to save the Jews. Truman's antipathy towards the Jews was very real, but it, too, is very much countered by his actions. They worked beyond their personal biases.

I don't know that Wilson could see past his biases. Nothing in the record suggests that he did.

Well no one asked me but i'll proffer up my opinion.  The argument on statues is a distraction.  Symbols hold meaning but they are only symbols.  A police officer named Piner with racist opinions pining for the next civil war is much more dangerous than a status of a racist from the civil war.  I'm not saying statues that glorify those who oppressed people shouldn't be taken down.  I'm saying the effort spent there will exhaust the progressive movement and drag it down into endless debate.  That's what is happening now in this forum and on fox news when they say "Well next they'll wanna rename this or remove that...."  In the end what is it worth, how many hills do we want to die on?  Statues should be a lagging indicator of progress not a leading one.

IMO,  you could proffer more unasked opinions and this forum would benefit.  I lean towards the idea that symbols can focus some minds,  so it's worth modifying or removing ones that are most unequivocal in glorifying a rogue slaver state.   If the Piners of the world don't have confederate slavers to gaze upon,  that's a good tweak even if it doesn't cause anyone to evolve overnight.   But if someone keeps seeing a statue of John Locke,  and one day bothers to ask why it's there,  and so learns about someone who helped form our most fundamental democratic principles...might carry them farther along in their thinking than just another general who had charisma and ran some good offense.  (somewhat joking example, I know Locke was a Limey...)   

[bambu.]

Will Black comedians in America, and their Black audiences be apologising for their  "Black People hate White People"-ilk hate/racist speech from the stage, and their jumping about laughing and clapping agreement?

Will you ever stop being an object of derision?

Well I just thought that seeing as how White people are basically being made apologise to all and sundry for their very existence...that would be a fair question to ask.

[bambu.]

One such Black comedian will be touring downunder soon.
Said Trump will be the subject of some of his jokes.
Of course.
Should be interesting...Trump is a White, heterosexual Christian male...
...and as US President, Australia's only real hope of self-defence.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Just read about 9 pages of vitriol here.

No one seems to ever concede that someone else may have a valid point.

It's rare but I had an exchange most recently with bambu where he admitted that I had presented new information to him.  I think in general that yelling or insulting someone is a sure fire way to make sure your point is not heard.

Agreed.

I find that careful, point by point rebuttals here do just as well as yelling or insulting for certain members of our group.

Do you disagree?

Yes, to a point. Few here are attempting to see an issue from a different POV. So, the insult is often hurled more quickly, and returned more quickly than a PBP post. So, likely it does do "just as well", for many.

[REDSTATEWARD]

We've pointed this out before, but you (Ward and Bambi) have a hard time grasping it:

Robert E. Lee was not only a brutal slave owner, but a traitor to the country.

FDR was not only an antisemite but a person who worked hard to save the country.

Also, despite his antisemitic proclivities and his failure with the St. Louis, he still worked to save the Jews. Truman's antipathy towards the Jews was very real, but it, too, is very much countered by his actions. They worked beyond their personal biases.

I don't know that Wilson could see past his biases. Nothing in the record suggests that he did.

Well no one asked me but i'll proffer up my opinion.  The argument on statues is a distraction.  Symbols hold meaning but they are only symbols.  A police officer named Piner with racist opinions pining for the next civil war is much more dangerous than a status of a racist from the civil war.  I'm not saying statues that glorify those who oppressed people shouldn't be taken down.  I'm saying the effort spent there will exhaust the progressive movement and drag it down into endless debate.  That's what is happening now in this forum and on fox news when they say "Well next they'll wanna rename this or remove that...."  In the end what is it worth, how many hills do we want to die on?  Statues should be a lagging indicator of progress not a leading one.

IMO,  you could proffer more unasked opinions and this forum would benefit.  I lean towards the idea that symbols can focus some minds,  so it's worth modifying or removing ones that are most unequivocal in glorifying a rogue slaver state.   If the Piners of the world don't have confederate slavers to gaze upon,  that's a good tweak even if it doesn't cause anyone to evolve overnight.   But if someone keeps seeing a statue of John Locke,  and one day bothers to ask why it's there,  and so learns about someone who helped form our most fundamental democratic principles...might carry them farther along in their thinking than just another general who had charisma and ran some good offense.  (somewhat joking example, I know Locke was a Limey...)

Well.
Seems you miss the obvious connection to Locke that was the basis of this country.
The “ Contract” between the ruler and the ruled is based on the ruler protecting the private property of the ruled so the ruler can retain power.
Statues authorized, built, and paid for by citizens require thegovernment to protect them. ( that does not preclude a legislative change to the continued presence of a government funded statue)
A “mob” cannot interfere and the government is bound by our constitution to repel its efforts to break the “ Contract”.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Will Black comedians in America, and their Black audiences be apologising for their  "Black People hate White People"-ilk hate/racist speech from the stage, and their jumping about laughing and clapping agreement?

Will you ever stop being an object of derision?

Well I just thought that seeing as how White people are basically being made apologise to all and sundry for their very existence...that would be a fair question to ask.

Aren't there some kangaroos who need being fed? Are there no sheep for you to shear? Seriously, what is your obsession with our country? And with race?

Did you get beyond 7th year in school, mate?

[facilitatorn]

Will Black comedians in America, and their Black audiences be apologising for their  "Black People hate White People"-ilk hate/racist speech from the stage, and their jumping about laughing and clapping agreement?

Will you ever stop being an object of derision?

Well I just thought that seeing as how White people are basically being made apologise to all and sundry for their very existence...that would be a fair question to ask.

I fear I will doubt your full sincerity till you start acting less of a joke.

The prevailing theory is you like the attention.