Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Echo4]

The research and test process that makes a good vaccine has nothing to do with how much a politician runs his mouth.   A year to 18 months would be a very good time frame for a new virus.   If some set of lucky breaks,   clever innovation,  and a stable CV genome allows an earlier vaccine,  it will be thanks to the international research community,  not the "president."

Sure.

Has nothing to do with the timing of the announcement of one, however!

[bankshot1]

I'm glad Bo's has figured out the final solution for the Middle-East.
Its EZ.
JFC

It is.
The US stops blocking UN Security Council resolutions.
If Israel doesn't abide by the UNSc resolutions and/or Euro mediation and policies, then Israel would get slapped with debilitating UN sanctions until they agreed to follow international law.  Israel is too small to withstand such economic pressure.  Europe and the UN could craft a two-state peace plan.  Israel never has to worry about that because the US protects it from world opinion with a Security Council veto.  Without such impunity, things would be awfully different.  The US has been the major impediment to ME peace for half a century or more.  At least Trump ended the farce of the US an honest broker there.

PS I think putting "final solution" in your post is a complete asshole move ...
But it is nice to see you have an open mind and don't just resort to ridicule and dismissiveness.  There's definitely some kiid in you.

I'm sorry you took deep offense at my QnD assessment of your EZ quick fix to a century old problem with roots that go back thousands of years.

And I have posted I'm very uncomfortable with recent Israeli politics.  And I think any solution will mandate (can I use that word?) sacrifice by the Israeli's, vast investment by Israel, US and other countries and the Palestinians to agree to peace, in a massive economic package where all the parties are invested in its success and an equitable lasting peace. 

As to the particulars that;s way above my pay grade. But clearly a man of your towering intellect who can can fashion the final solution in a sentence  or two can nail it down with specific plans.

But to lay the blame Israel and strip it of its one ally in the world.

And let the fair and balanced voices of the UN and the rampant anti-semitism voiced there solve the issue?


That's not a prescription for a happy ending in the ME.

That you fool is a prescription for war and death of a magnitude that seems to have escaped you.

You'll have to go back to work and come up with something that is more equitable.

Or at least more equitable than your idiotic final solution.

And Bo I chose that phrase intentionally as it seemed to fit.

Perhaps you should put your big-brain togther with Jared and we'll have two posturing idiots who are wholly infectual and ill-suiterd to solve the problem.

And maybe get it done before the fireworks.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Almost all criticism of Israel has antisemitism attached, whether by choice or by ignorance.

[bodiddley]

The US doesn't have to be completely sidelined, and can make sure there's a degree of fairness.  But the UNSC veto and allowing Israel to have total impunity from following international law hasn't exactly worked well or solved anything. 

The broad outlines of a two-state deal have been in place for a few decades.  Since they were crafted by the US mostly in consultation with Israel, they unsurprisingly mostly favor Israel.   

The US expended $1T to obliterate Afghanistan.  More went into ruining Iraq.  The US and Europe could pony up significant money to make a fair deal in Palestine/Israel work.

[bankshot1]

Almost all criticism of Israel has antisemitism attached, whether by choice or by ignorance.

Nope. I criticiized Israel and its reecnt political leanings and actions in my response to Bo.

But I think stripping israel of its one powerful ally, leaving it dependent upon an institution that has repeatedly shown bias against Israel and anti-semitism is a valid criticism. Its a lose lose from the go.

YMMV 

[bodiddley]

Almost all criticism of Israel has antisemitism attached, whether by choice or by ignorance.

At least Bibi would like you to believe so.
So you can't criticize Israel without being labelled a bigot?  How convenient.

I think a lot of folks, including a lot of American Jews and some Israeli Jews, criticize Israel because they would like to see it become a better and nobler place.  And think the right-wing gov'ts have led it down a dangerous and morally dubious path to the detriment of Israel. 

[bodiddley]

Anyway, to focus more on the Trump Admin, I think Trump did reveal a few truths that both parties were unwilling to admit or confront.

1)  The US, with both parties on board, will support Israel no matter what and is not the honest broker everyone used to pretend.  It's a more honest and direct policy (and speaks to the changing context in which the Palestinians have largely been ditched by everybody).

2) China has been winning the trade war for decades since we let it join WTO, and a fair amount of their success can be traced to unfair practices.  But whatever the cause, there's no sane reason to transfer $400B or so to China every year.  That it's time to even up the deficit, and stop or limit China's protectionist and illegal policies, if China wants to enjoy free trade with the US. 

Now Trump went about this in pretty much the clumsiest and stupidest manner possible, but there was truth at the core.  Moreover the initial reason to massively trade with China was to open their society and promote liberal values, and that just hasn't worked.

3) I'm not as up on immigration, but the old system was always a mess.  The Dems were fine with legal and illegal immigration, while corporate GOP was too as they wanted cheap labor to work and to keep wages down.  I'm not sure what the Trumpian truth reveal was exactly, maybe that many Americans are racist and that both parties were fine with illegal immigration.  or that the public was much less happy with the high rate of immigration than the governing/corporate elites were.

[Echo4]

I'm glad Bo's has figured out the final solution for the Middle-East.
Its EZ.
JFC

It is.
The US stops blocking UN Security Council resolutions.
If Israel doesn't abide by the UNSc resolutions and/or Euro mediation and policies, then Israel would get slapped with debilitating UN sanctions until they agreed to follow international law.  Israel is too small to withstand such economic pressure.  Europe and the UN could craft a two-state peace plan.  Israel never has to worry about that because the US protects it from world opinion with a Security Council veto.  Without such impunity, things would be awfully different.  The US has been the major impediment to ME peace for half a century or more.  At least Trump ended the farce of the US an honest broker there.

Your naivete in this area is surprising.

A few problems I see with your views on this:
1) A two-state solution ordinarily includes the West Bank and Gaza as the two parts. As has been seen before, with West and East Pakistan, a country trying to control two parts like that is very difficult. It works with Alaska because Canada is not hostile and (thus far) our own internal politics don't lead to substantial armed conflict between our parties.

2) Your notion that a two-state solution would bring peace to the Palestinian and Israeli peoples is bizarre to me. The dominant political party of Gaza has no interest in or intention of peace with Israel and a shift from their current governmental state to becoming part of a new nation is not going to change that. Hamas will get more rockets, then Israel will receive them... through the air.

3) Gaza is dependent on Israel for most of its power, with Egypt providing some as well. But getting it paid for is problematic, not because of either Israel or Egypt, but because of conflicts between Hamas and Fatah. And even when there is no internal crisis, there is insufficient energy.

4) Right of return. Nothing about the current boundaries of Gaza and the West Bank will satisfy the 10s of thousands of displaced persons, let alone the 5 million descendants who make a claim for that right now. There are 59 refugee camps scattered across multiple countries. The occupants have refused offers of homes since their founding (variously 70+ and 50+ years ago), insisting they will remain in the refugee camps until they are allowed to go home. 1.7 Million live in those camps. Israel's total population is 8.8 million.

5) Israel will respond to #4 with claims about its own displaced hundreds of thousands from Arab countries, seeking reparations for them. Shockingly enough, I doubt those other countries have the slightest interest in repaying their exiled Jews for property so taken.

No, really it is not easy. Even if you could get Europe and the UN to agree to a plan, it is not going to bring peace to the area.

Also, my comments were hardly about the Israeli/Palestinian situation alone.

Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon remain problems in the Mid East, all of which Trump has exacerbated. And Gaza aside, the water situation there is deteriorating over time, as well.

Not easy.

[Echo4]

make sure there's a degree of fairness

And that phrase makes it pretty clear where your sentiments lie, Bo.

Not "fair," but "a degree of fairness."

[kiidcarter8]

New swine flu in China?

Bodiddley, what can you tell us?

[bodiddley]

I didn't use fairness, because I find the US concept of fairness in this context is rather Israel biased.

The US could step in at any time and exert its power to make sure that things are equitable.  The US could be fully involved too.  The idea being the US doesn't have to be a complete bystander, but shouldn't be a complete shield either.  And that Europe and/or world opinion should be in the mix much more, balancing out the US bias.

[bodiddley]

New swine flu in China?
Bodiddley, what can you tell us?

Uh, is that the one only in pigs (for now)?

I can tell you it is much safer to stop eating pork, as the bible tell us, and all animals. 

FYI, there are other coronaviruses in bats.  That's what they were studying in Wuhan.

[facilitatorn]

The Jews went to he wrong place after WWII to start a country. Greenland would have been the right choice. Instead they went by the book and put their foot in a bear trap. Now they have no way of pulling it out.

[facilitatorn]

Update from THE SEWER:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/riot-declared-in-portland-cops-oder-protesters-to-leave

Now that you’ve correctly identified foxnews as THE SEWER, why do you get your nourishment there?

It’s making you weak sick and easily confused.

[bankshot1]

In a matter of a few minutes poor confused Bo has gone from the US stepping aside to the US imposing its will.

Watching Bo work his statecraft  is fucking hysterical stuff.