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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[facilitatorn]

http://www.salon.com/2020/08/08/as-the-pandemic-has-made-clear-america-has-no-welfare-state--but-we-sure-have-a-warfare-state/

[LarryBnDC]

So you got nothing except that you disagree.  Very persuasive.

There's no persuading the stupid. The ignorant, there's hope, but the stupid? They just get led to slaughter.

It’s not stupid it’s a view from a different perspective.

The rightwing has dominated their politics in recent times and they’re in the same apocalyptic mindset as here.

The perspective of a blithering fool who doesn't know history, nor fully grasp the commitment of the Arabs to destroying Israel is one not worth considering.

Chime in elsewhere, Larry. Try a topic you're well versed in.

Like...Shark Week.

On more than one occasion I’ve mentioned in the early 90s I represented athletes and artists from the USA working in Israel.

I have a different and most likely more nuanced perspective on Israel than you.

But hey!

No one is more open minded than you, right?

[facilitatorn]

Whenever UNo finds a stick he’s bound to get some mud on it.

That patch of land should really give secularism a prolonged and serious try.

[bambu.]

He was there, allegedly assisted.



Come on, man....

He and she have not been convicted yet, so everything is 'allegedly'.

For what they've been charged with, and what they're facing...if I were on the jury I'd be voting "Not Guilty".

[facilitatorn]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/8/1967730/-At-executive-order-signing-event-Trump-lies-taunts-the-press-sows-fear-and-disses-Democrats

One ineffective executive order & 3 memos.

It’s sharpie time.

Republicans are still sitting on their sharpie as America burns.

[bodiddley]

nor fully grasp the commitment of the Arabs to destroying Israel is one not worth considering.

Which Arabs would that be?
Egypt?  No
Jordan? No
Saudis? Nope
Yemen?  Oman?
UAE, Qatar, Bahrain?
Iraq?
Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya?

Looks like we're talking some stateless Palestinians, Syria, Hezbollah (and non-Arab Iran).  And some scattered Islamic fundamentalist groups.

Indeed Israel has some genuine enemies who can be pretty ruthless.
But your thinking seems intentionally mired in post-WWII conceptions.
This isn't 1967.

And if the Palestinian issue were settled peacefully, likely much of the anti-Israel animus would fade.

[bodiddley]

Gotta say I agree with most of bambu's thoughts about the CV virus and about the US  penal system being frequently too harsh, and the excessive over-prosecution in this case.

Sure that police car was just two days away from retirement.  We're talking some property damage here.  Even 5 years is too harsh.  Maybe 1 or 2, or even just probation.  Actually I haven't followed the case at all, so really shouldn't opine.  I would love to be on the jury and vote Not Guilty.  And afterwards give lots of interviews.

With that said, Molotov cocktails are not peaceful protesting and people are responsible for their behavior, especially when it crosses the line into illegal and dangerous.  Don't throw Molotov cocktails.

[Echo4]

And if the Palestinian issue were settled peacefully, likely much of the anti-Israel animus would fade.

And if Trump and McConnell had consciences, we could solve many of the problems in America today.

Fantasyland, Bo.

Your suggestion of allowing 500,000 Palestinians to "return" is a perfectly fine notion that would not even begin to scratch the urge of the 4.5 million registered Palestinian refugees.

One third of those still (or since) live in refugee camps.

And they live there by choice, Bo, having been offered places to live, resettle, and build new existences. They choose to stay where they are because it might mean "returning" (even though most of them have never been in the places to which they wish to move).

I know you sincerely believe that if only Israel would behave itself that Hamas would stop fighting, but it just doesn't seem to be so.

I think Israel needs to find a way out of being Gaza's supplier of water, electricity, etc., while retaining some sense of security.

I think Gaza needs an airport, sea port, and land transportation. But given their track record of taking money intended to be invested in infrastructure and spending it on munitions, it's hard to see how that happens. It's not Israel's actions that prompted donations to dry up, but Hamas'.

Your mockery considered, the fear of a nuke or a bio weapon is a real one. The fear of rockets from Hamas is a real one. That those fears are real does't mean that Israel isn't bigger and stronger, but that the nature of weapons is such that huge amounts of damage can be done by a small number of individuals.

Perhaps one could get the Catholics and Protestants from Northern Ireland to play peacekeepers between Gaza and Israel and to help guide the reconstruction.

I just know that (a) it has to be outsiders who are not perceived as having a stake in the answer, but (b) who are given the power to enforce their positions and decisions. And that this joke of a president, his bigger joke of a peace negotiator, and the buffoon who is still running Israel, despite his being on trial, are invested in screwing the Palestinians, but in the process are screwing Israelis just as much.

Not that Israel did any better by their own people when the thousands of Jews were forced to abandon their settlements in Gaza.

It's a clusterfuck.

[Echo4]

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128932141&fbclid=IwAR3_fPZ3u5px_WCwGk6SGC1qvr5htKqMbdjtMJBwJ6ov6dN5WSB--WYGm-E

Low-Income Minorities With Disabilities See Services Disparity

[Echo4]

Mexico is stepping up and taking care of their people. They cancelled in-school education and coordinated nationwide with their television networks to get broadcasted lessons in multiple languages to those millions without WiFi!!

But we can't do that...

[bodiddley]

I think Hamas is so boxed in and weak, and since they are in charge of Gaza as Gaza becomes increasingly unlivable, Hamas is becoming unpopular.  The risk is that something worse and more militant than Hamas takes their place.  That's how Hamas was born.  I think Hamas is getting desperate to improve the situation in Gaza, and Israel controls many of the levers to allow that to happen.  So there is an opportunity and a possible pathway for cooperation and improvement.

The blockade needs to be ended.  Which you seem to agree with.  Otherwise there's no need for an airport or seaport.  Israel has every right to keep its border with Gaza sealed.

I can't see Israel ever agreeing to allow 4.5M Palestinians into the WB and already crowded Gaza.  My 500K is a compromise gesture, since there is about that much settlement housing there.  That's just a number I tossed out, but would allow some degree of return, which Israel could probably grudgingly accept.  It could be upped to 1M once Palestinians are allowed to actually build new houses, towns, etc on WB land.  Is that fair or adequate?  It's a compromise.  The other refugees would get financial compensation from international donors.

For a long time having the US as a supposed neutral party was dishonest. 

There are pathways forward.  But likely not until Bibi is in jail and Trump ousted.  Or vice versa.   Here are pretty much my parameters:
Israel is a member of the community of nations. 
The Palestinians have the right to a state of their own, and the end to their statelessness.
Israel is not going to give up all the territory acquired in the wars a half century ago. 
All the Palestinian refugees are not going to be allowed to return to Palestine. 
Settlements on occupied territory are illegal though some very likely will remain.
If Gaza can't be dealt with now, move forward on solving the statehood issue for the WB Palestinians and deal with Gaza later or on a different time frame.
The economic blockade of Gaza should be lifted, perhaps with conditions.
There's probably more, but off the top of my head that's what I'm proceeding from.

[bodiddley]

President Donald Trump is teasing the possibility of executive action to require health insurance companies to cover preexisting medical conditions, something that he says “has never been done before.”

It’s been done before.

People with such medical problems have health insurance protections because of President Barack Obama’s health care law, which Trump is trying to dismantle.

Not only is it the current law, but an executive order is most likely not legal to do such anyway.  https://apnews.com/5707eb98847a3c69632a2eea2e03a475

Maybe what Trump means is don't worry if i take it away, I'll give it back.
Except he probably can't and won't.

Also once insurers have to cover everyone including those who will be costly, they will lose money or jack up rates, or need something like the mandate to get healthy people paying into the system.  There's a reason that the Heritage Foundation plan which became Romneycare and then Obamacare is built as it is.  It's a market based solution, keeping insurance companies as middlemen in the game, one of the few ways it works when you force insurance companies to cover everyone who wants coverage (by expanding the paying pool to everyone).  Better to cut out the paper-pushers and invest the savings into health care.

[kiidcarter8]

A group of demonstrators broke into the Portland Police Association building, set the fire and were adding to it when officers made the riot declaration late Saturday, police tweeted. Video shot by a journalist shows smoke and flames arising from inside the building.





Why?



https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-riot-declared-as-fire-burns-in-police-union-offices

[barton]

Bambu, i appreciate your compassion and open-minded look at the Paki-American attorney.   KidC could learn from you.   

Making an example of someone is usually an act more about politics and pandering to a certain bloc,  than it is about serving proportionate justice.   

[Hamilton Samuels]

And if the Palestinian issue were settled peacefully, likely much of the anti-Israel animus would fade.

And if Trump and McConnell had consciences, we could solve many of the problems in America today.

Fantasyland, Bo.

Your suggestion of allowing 500,000 Palestinians to "return" is a perfectly fine notion that would not even begin to scratch the urge of the 4.5 million registered Palestinian refugees.

One third of those still (or since) live in refugee camps.

And they live there by choice, Bo, having been offered places to live, resettle, and build new existences. They choose to stay where they are because it might mean "returning" (even though most of them have never been in the places to which they wish to move).

I know you sincerely believe that if only Israel would behave itself that Hamas would stop fighting, but it just doesn't seem to be so.

I think Israel needs to find a way out of being Gaza's supplier of water, electricity, etc., while retaining some sense of security.

I think Gaza needs an airport, sea port, and land transportation. But given their track record of taking money intended to be invested in infrastructure and spending it on munitions, it's hard to see how that happens. It's not Israel's actions that prompted donations to dry up, but Hamas'.

Your mockery considered, the fear of a nuke or a bio weapon is a real one. The fear of rockets from Hamas is a real one. That those fears are real does't mean that Israel isn't bigger and stronger, but that the nature of weapons is such that huge amounts of damage can be done by a small number of individuals.

Perhaps one could get the Catholics and Protestants from Northern Ireland to play peacekeepers between Gaza and Israel and to help guide the reconstruction.

I just know that (a) it has to be outsiders who are not perceived as having a stake in the answer, but (b) who are given the power to enforce their positions and decisions. And that this joke of a president, his bigger joke of a peace negotiator, and the buffoon who is still running Israel, despite his being on trial, are invested in screwing the Palestinians, but in the process are screwing Israelis just as much.

Not that Israel did any better by their own people when the thousands of Jews were forced to abandon their settlements in Gaza.

It's a clusterfuck.

Bo wants Hamas to get the Nobel Peace Prize.

Fucking delusional.