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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1998227 times)

bankshot1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60660 on: December 20, 2020, 12:55:07 PM »



The Science Josh likes to ignore.



Estimation of US Children’s Educational Attainment and Years of Life Lost Associated With Primary School Closures During the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic




These findings suggest that the decision to close US public primary schools in the early months of 2020 may be associated with a decrease in life expectancy for US children.





https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834?utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jamanetworkopen&utm_content=wklyforyou&utm_term=111320


If you read the abstract, then you know the premise is that anything that reduces educational attainment correlates with shorter lifespan.   Any policy.   From any party,  at any level of government.   So we must conclude that you and Bernie Sanders are now in full alignment on going all out to promote maximum access to college for all.   

Also note the "may be" associated with decreased life expectancy.   We can still compensate for the year of pandemic.   The effects are not set in stone.
You would have done better just to post your squirrel picture.
What you did offer missed the  point of the study.
Yes, the point is, as with the economic recovery we are going to need to invest in en educational recovery as well, focusing resources on how we can adjust our educational system in order to make up the deficit and help avert this outcome. We are also going to have to direct resources to the health issues that are going to result, not just from school shutdowns, but the entire COVID crisis, from mental health to health care access to the lingering long term effect.of the virus on individual health.

Resources means money.

Got any suggestions, or are you just stuck on open everything up and fuck the hundreds of thousands of dead people?

if Red wants to fuck dead people, I'm not going to pass judgement on Red's perversions.

He can fuck rats with Mitch McConnell as far as I'm concerned.

Just leave kids alone.

The trouble comes when Red wants to fuck their families and the living.



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luee

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60661 on: December 20, 2020, 12:58:24 PM »

Biden's options for Russian hacking punishment: sanctions, cyber retaliation

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-cyber-breach-biden/bidens-options-for-russian-hacking-punishment-sanctions-cyber-retaliation-idUSKBN28U0DV

The Russians are coming?



 
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REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60662 on: December 20, 2020, 01:01:26 PM »



The Science Josh likes to ignore.



Estimation of US Children’s Educational Attainment and Years of Life Lost Associated With Primary School Closures During the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic




These findings suggest that the decision to close US public primary schools in the early months of 2020 may be associated with a decrease in life expectancy for US children.





https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834?utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jamanetworkopen&utm_content=wklyforyou&utm_term=111320


If you read the abstract, then you know the premise is that anything that reduces educational attainment correlates with shorter lifespan.   Any policy.   From any party,  at any level of government.   So we must conclude that you and Bernie Sanders are now in full alignment on going all out to promote maximum access to college for all.   

Also note the "may be" associated with decreased life expectancy.   We can still compensate for the year of pandemic.   The effects are not set in stone.
You would have done better just to post your squirrel picture.
What you did offer missed the  point of the study.
Yes, the point is, as with the economic recovery we are going to need to invest in en educational recovery as well, focusing resources on how we can adjust our educational system in order to make up the deficit and help avert this outcome. We are also going to have to direct resources to the health issues that are going to result, not just from school shutdowns, but the entire COVID crisis, from mental health to health care access to the lingering long term effect.of the virus on individual health.

Resources means money. Got any suggestions, or are you just stuck on open everything up and fuck the hundreds of thousands of dead people?
I posted a study on the effects of closing in-school learning at the elementary level.
If you want to argue against  “ opening everything up” feel free to offer some facts to support your position.
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60663 on: December 20, 2020, 01:06:01 PM »

I think it's fair to say you missed my point.   The college example was used in pointing out a comparable situation, in the analytical model you were citing.   If reducing in-school access to the young reduces overall educational attainment throughout life (which is the premise of your article), then so do other crimps on schooling,  including unaffordable tuition, poor school meal nutrition, lack of early learning options,  lack of social services to single parents and at-risk youth, etc.     
IOW,  you can't have it both ways,  by being nobly committed to in-school teaching while neglecting the other components of what the article calls educational attainment.   
Huh? Can’t have WHAT both ways? Without access to elementary education then college will only be accessible to the rich. And closing elementary schools to in-school teaching already  has direct and negative impact on meal nutrition for the poor, lack of early learning opportunities, plus devastating effects on those parents who cannot work from home, and, as the study points out, the most disastrous effects on at-risk youth.
Quote


And I wasn't inventing quotes.   Conservatives at this very forum have dismissed the value of progressive programs with those sorts of remarks.   The point is that you can plead one progressive measure only if you rationally accept that education is a continuum of needs spanning the first two decades,  and more,  of life.   If you do that, then perhaps my point about the limited and speculative character of that JAMA study will be clearer.
Hiding behind the political tropes and code words just diminishes your position.
Use some facts. If you want to emphasize other programs go ahead but this study was about keeping kids out of the classroom.

Strawman position,  which is not mine.   Nothing partisan or coded about my point that educational attainment rests on more than saving a few months of in-school elementary.   And my comments on the two decade continuum were factually based.   

What may confuse you is that I don't actually disagree on finding ways to make in-school work and serve good lunches,  etc.   But,  as CaCO3 pointed out,  that takes money and implementation of safety protocols for teachers,  plenty of subs and sick leave options,  home care assists for when grandparents are caregivers, frequent antigen testing,  ventilation retrofits in buikdings,  etc.   
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 01:09:48 PM by barton »
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60664 on: December 20, 2020, 01:26:26 PM »

Good WaPO article summarizing the entire COVID year long fiasco:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-covid-pandemic-dark-winter/

Quote
The story of how America arrived at this final season of devastation, with the reported death toll some days surpassing 3,000 people — a new 9/11 day after day — is based on interviews over the past month with 48 senior administration officials, government health professionals, outside presidential advisers and other people briefed on the inner workings of the federal response.

The catastrophe began with Trump’s initial refusal to take seriously the threat of a once-in-a-century pandemic. But, as officials detailed, it has been compounded over time by a host of damaging presidential traits — his skepticism of science, impatience with health restrictions, prioritization of personal politics over public safety, undisciplined communications, chaotic management style, indulgence of conspiracies, proclivity toward magical thinking, allowance of turf wars and flagrant disregard for the well-being of those around him.

Yep, the worst person in charge at the worst time.

Quote
“It was a series of multiple decisions that showed a lack of desire to listen to the actual scientists and also a lack of leadership in general, and that put us on this progression of where we’re at today.”  Kyle McGowan

Quote
the administration’s overall response is likely to be scrutinized for years to come as a case study in crisis mismanagement. At the heart of the problem, experts say, have been Trump’s scrambled and faulty communications.

Quote
"To see a sitting president directly refuse to help during a crisis is just flabbergasting to me.”  Olivia Troye, a former Pence adviser and task force aide who resigned in the summer

There's Jared's promise of thousands of pharmacy and other retail sites doing testing.  Only 78 ever appeared.  But they took up 30% of all PPE available at the time.

The plan to send a package of 5 masks to eveyr household, which was killed partly because trump was feuding with the postal service, but also the Admin never cared much about masks.

Trump's Happy talk and alternate reality where things were fine:
Quote
Trump often said he was trying to be a “cheerleader” for the country, and a senior administration official explained that the president has said he drew lessons from Norman Vincent Peale’s “The Power of Positive Thinking.”

“What he’s saying there is, ‘I’m going to will the economy to success through mass psychology. We’re going to tell the country things are going great and it’s going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy,’ ” this official said of Trump.

Political interference with CDC guidelines.

Dr. Atlas, a guy Trump plucked from Fox TV, and his stealth herd immunity push.

Quote
“Fauci was probably Joe Biden’s most effective campaign surrogate on the trail in 2020,” said Jason Miller, a senior campaign adviser.

Trump rallies.  White House super-spreader events.
Trump losing interest and not mentioning Covid anymore, especially after the election.
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Good Gov't Saves Lives
 --- Bad Gov't Kills ---

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60665 on: December 20, 2020, 01:31:30 PM »

I think it's fair to say you missed my point.   The college example was used in pointing out a comparable situation, in the analytical model you were citing.   If reducing in-school access to the young reduces overall educational attainment throughout life (which is the premise of your article), then so do other crimps on schooling,  including unaffordable tuition, poor school meal nutrition, lack of early learning options,  lack of social services to single parents and at-risk youth, etc.     
IOW,  you can't have it both ways,  by being nobly committed to in-school teaching while neglecting the other components of what the article calls educational attainment.   
Huh? Can’t have WHAT both ways? Without access to elementary education then college will only be accessible to the rich. And closing elementary schools to in-school teaching already  has direct and negative impact on meal nutrition for the poor, lack of early learning opportunities, plus devastating effects on those parents who cannot work from home, and, as the study points out, the most disastrous effects on at-risk youth.
Quote


And I wasn't inventing quotes.   Conservatives at this very forum have dismissed the value of progressive programs with those sorts of remarks.   The point is that you can plead one progressive measure only if you rationally accept that education is a continuum of needs spanning the first two decades,  and more,  of life.   If you do that, then perhaps my point about the limited and speculative character of that JAMA study will be clearer.
Hiding behind the political tropes and code words just diminishes your position.
Use some facts. If you want to emphasize other programs go ahead but this study was about keeping kids out of the classroom.

Strawman position,  which is not mine.   Nothing partisan or coded about my point that educational attainment rests on more than saving a few months of in-school elementary.   And my comments on the two decade continuum were factually based.   
Which has nothing to do with the findings of the posted article.
Quote

What may confuse you is that I don't actually disagree on finding ways to make in-school work and serve good lunches,  etc.   But,  as CaCO3 pointed out,  that takes money and implementation of safety protocols for teachers,  plenty of subs and sick leave options,  home care assists for when grandparents are caregivers, frequent antigen testing,  ventilation retrofits in buikdings,  etc.
So what?
The cited study summarized the effects of school aged children being kept at home and not being allowed to learn in-school. The Federal Government has little power over  the states and local communities
on school matters but it can direct money be offered for the issues you mentioned.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60666 on: December 20, 2020, 01:38:16 PM »

The key phrases, beyond the acknowledged "may be" already touched upon are these from the conclusion:
Quote
We believe that during the COVID-19 pandemic, the United States has extracted an enormous sacrifice from its youngest citizens to protect the health of its oldest. During a pandemic, this may well be an ethically defensible tradeoff, but only if resources are invested to reverse the potential damage to health and education that this strategy may inflict on a population with low visibility and high vulnerability.

The "may" is still there, of course, but with it is how the government could respond to ameliorate the possible loss of years at the end of life.

But hang on a sec and let's look at 3 numbers from their study:
24.2 million children.
5.54 million years of life possibly lost (YLL)
1.47 million additional probable YLL had schools remained open

Their estimate is that the average child impacted by the school closures lost just over 84 days of life.

EIGHTY-FOUR days.

That's without subtracting the saved years because it is hard to know how many people it's spread across, but please note that that 1.47 YLL is damned close to their estimated YLL already lost - suggesting a doubling of lives lost had the schools remained open!

The lives lost from schools staying open is a fact that the original poster of the article has previously denied, so it's lovely to see the acknowledgment here, implicit in his insistence that this be heeded.



But beyond the potential loss of those 84 days for the children, late in life, if the government does nothing to fix it, are the rest of the implications in his position, from this article!

Child poverty affects more than 11.5 million children in the United States. The numbers globally are horrific.

Quote
Educational outcomes are one of the key areas influenced by family incomes. Children from low-income families often start school already behind their peers who come from more affluent families, as shown in measures of school readiness. The incidence, depth, duration and timing of poverty all influence a child’s educational attainment, along with community characteristics and social networks. However, both Canadian and international interventions have shown that the effects of poverty can be reduced using sustainable interventions.

And we can see examples of the gap in educational attainment, which the OP's JAMA article uses for its relationship to YLL:
Quote
Among 2014 high school graduates, 68 percent were enrolled in higher education as of October 2014. Among students whose families were in the top income quartile, 87 percent of graduates continued on to college, compared with 77 percent in the third quartile, 69 percent in the second quartile, and 60 percent in the bottom income quartile—representing a gap of 27 percentage points between the top and bottom quartiles.

Among a sample of students who were sophomores in high school in 2002, 84 percent—or 77 percent of American Indian/Alaska Native students, 79 percent of Hispanic students, 82 percent of black students, 87 percent of white students, and 93 percent of Asian or Pacific Islander students—had entered postsecondary education within eight years of their expected high school graduation.
...
Among students in the bottom socioeconomic quartile, 15 percent had earned a bachelor’s degree within eight years of their expected high school graduation, compared with 22 percent in the second quartile, 37 percent in the third quartile, and 60 percent in the top quartile.

Further: "parents from disadvantaged backgrounds were not only more likely to have their babies born prematurely, but these prematurely born children were also disproportionately at higher risk for school failure than children with a similar neonatal record from higher income families."

This is arguably one of the factors in the lower life expectancy among those impoverished families:
Quote
(This) study shows that in the U.S., the richest 1 percent of men lives 14.6 years longer on average than the poorest 1 percent of men, while among women in those wealth percentiles, the difference is 10.1 years on average.

This eye-opening gap is also growing rapidly: Over roughly the last 15 years, life expectancy increased by 2.34 years for men and 2.91 years for women who are among the top 5 percent of income earners in America, but by just 0.32 and 0.04 years for men and women in the bottom 5 percent of the income tables.

So, while the OP is worrying about 84 days, women in poverty live 3689 fewer days while men in poverty live 5333 fewer days, on average.

If those lives actually mattered to the OP, then we know what we need to do societally, speaking of science being ignored.

But they don't.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60667 on: December 20, 2020, 01:39:40 PM »

Biden's options for Russian hacking punishment: sanctions, cyber retaliation

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-cyber-breach-biden/bidens-options-for-russian-hacking-punishment-sanctions-cyber-retaliation-idUSKBN28U0DV

The Russians are coming?

The Russians have held both the White House and Senate majority for the last 4 years.

That’s why we get such pro-Russia and anti-USA policy from those offices.
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Republicans will deliver only poverty and world war

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60668 on: December 20, 2020, 01:43:01 PM »



The Science Josh likes to ignore.



Estimation of US Children’s Educational Attainment and Years of Life Lost Associated With Primary School Closures During the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic




These findings suggest that the decision to close US public primary schools in the early months of 2020 may be associated with a decrease in life expectancy for US children.





https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834?utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jamanetworkopen&utm_content=wklyforyou&utm_term=111320


If you read the abstract, then you know the premise is that anything that reduces educational attainment correlates with shorter lifespan.   Any policy.   From any party,  at any level of government.   So we must conclude that you and Bernie Sanders are now in full alignment on going all out to promote maximum access to college for all.   

Also note the "may be" associated with decreased life expectancy.   We can still compensate for the year of pandemic.   The effects are not set in stone.
You would have done better just to post your squirrel picture.
What you did offer missed the  point of the study.
Yes, the point is, as with the economic recovery we are going to need to invest in en educational recovery as well, focusing resources on how we can adjust our educational system in order to make up the deficit and help avert this outcome. We are also going to have to direct resources to the health issues that are going to result, not just from school shutdowns, but the entire COVID crisis, from mental health to health care access to the lingering long term effect.of the virus on individual health.

Resources means money. Got any suggestions, or are you just stuck on open everything up and fuck the hundreds of thousands of dead people?

Quite
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60669 on: December 20, 2020, 01:43:08 PM »

https://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-us-0411 - this is the last source. I can find the others again if it matters and you can't.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60670 on: December 20, 2020, 01:45:37 PM »

There is a trillion or so easily available to plow into education and poverty reduction gotten by simply rescinding the giant boondoggle of the trump-McConnell tax cuts.

Red is going to great lengths today to show us why ending republican influence on tax policy is such a good idea.
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Republicans will deliver only poverty and world war

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60671 on: December 20, 2020, 01:50:17 PM »

I think it's fair to say you missed my point.   The college example was used in pointing out a comparable situation, in the analytical model you were citing.   If reducing in-school access to the young reduces overall educational attainment throughout life (which is the premise of your article), then so do other crimps on schooling,  including unaffordable tuition, poor school meal nutrition, lack of early learning options,  lack of social services to single parents and at-risk youth, etc.     
IOW,  you can't have it both ways,  by being nobly committed to in-school teaching while neglecting the other components of what the article calls educational attainment.   
Huh? Can’t have WHAT both ways? Without access to elementary education then college will only be accessible to the rich. And closing elementary schools to in-school teaching already  has direct and negative impact on meal nutrition for the poor, lack of early learning opportunities, plus devastating effects on those parents who cannot work from home, and, as the study points out, the most disastrous effects on at-risk youth.
Quote


And I wasn't inventing quotes.   Conservatives at this very forum have dismissed the value of progressive programs with those sorts of remarks.   The point is that you can plead one progressive measure only if you rationally accept that education is a continuum of needs spanning the first two decades,  and more,  of life.   If you do that, then perhaps my point about the limited and speculative character of that JAMA study will be clearer.
Hiding behind the political tropes and code words just diminishes your position.
Use some facts. If you want to emphasize other programs go ahead but this study was about keeping kids out of the classroom.

Send those brats back to school so we can shove their ‘essential workers’ (who make MY life comfortable) back into the pandemic.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60672 on: December 20, 2020, 01:53:39 PM »

Biden's options for Russian hacking punishment: sanctions, cyber retaliation

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-cyber-breach-biden/bidens-options-for-russian-hacking-punishment-sanctions-cyber-retaliation-idUSKBN28U0DV

The Russians are coming?

Nah.

They’re already here but are about to be evicted.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson

facilitatorn

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Republicans will deliver only poverty and world war

LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #60674 on: December 20, 2020, 01:57:08 PM »

Good WaPO article summarizing the entire COVID year long fiasco:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-covid-pandemic-dark-winter/

Quote
The story of how America arrived at this final season of devastation, with the reported death toll some days surpassing 3,000 people — a new 9/11 day after day — is based on interviews over the past month with 48 senior administration officials, government health professionals, outside presidential advisers and other people briefed on the inner workings of the federal response.

The catastrophe began with Trump’s initial refusal to take seriously the threat of a once-in-a-century pandemic. But, as officials detailed, it has been compounded over time by a host of damaging presidential traits — his skepticism of science, impatience with health restrictions, prioritization of personal politics over public safety, undisciplined communications, chaotic management style, indulgence of conspiracies, proclivity toward magical thinking, allowance of turf wars and flagrant disregard for the well-being of those around him.

Yep, the worst person in charge at the worst time.

Quote
“It was a series of multiple decisions that showed a lack of desire to listen to the actual scientists and also a lack of leadership in general, and that put us on this progression of where we’re at today.”  Kyle McGowan

Quote
the administration’s overall response is likely to be scrutinized for years to come as a case study in crisis mismanagement. At the heart of the problem, experts say, have been Trump’s scrambled and faulty communications.

Quote
"To see a sitting president directly refuse to help during a crisis is just flabbergasting to me.”  Olivia Troye, a former Pence adviser and task force aide who resigned in the summer

There's Jared's promise of thousands of pharmacy and other retail sites doing testing.  Only 78 ever appeared.  But they took up 30% of all PPE available at the time.

The plan to send a package of 5 masks to eveyr household, which was killed partly because trump was feuding with the postal service, but also the Admin never cared much about masks.

Trump's Happy talk and alternate reality where things were fine:
Quote
Trump often said he was trying to be a “cheerleader” for the country, and a senior administration official explained that the president has said he drew lessons from Norman Vincent Peale’s “The Power of Positive Thinking.”

“What he’s saying there is, ‘I’m going to will the economy to success through mass psychology. We’re going to tell the country things are going great and it’s going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy,’ ” this official said of Trump.

Political interference with CDC guidelines.

Dr. Atlas, a guy Trump plucked from Fox TV, and his stealth herd immunity push.

Quote
“Fauci was probably Joe Biden’s most effective campaign surrogate on the trail in 2020,” said Jason Miller, a senior campaign adviser.

Trump rallies.  White House super-spreader events.
Trump losing interest and not mentioning Covid anymore, especially after the election.

Incompetence coupled with malfeasance.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson
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