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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[barton]

Brief aside on earlier chat about national debt.   I'm aware recent GOP potuses have blown the largest holes in budgets.  CBO has the facts.   When I say I'm a fiscal conservative, I mean in the sense of:  minimize/paydown debt in every noncrisis year,  massive shift from defense/drugwar allocations over to education /health /housing,  and corporations pay their share (as they reap benefits from an educated healthy labor supply).

Just to clarify.   

Also,  a correction for the dingo-diddling dimwit who said we'll have communism:  communism means governments own the means of production.   That's not what we have or will have.  Try a dictionary before you use words.   

[LarryBnDC]

Happy Martin Luther King Day!

But remember when he was murdered April 4, 1968 he was one of the most reviled men in America.

Was he?

Yes.

http://baltimoretimes-online.com/news/2020/feb/07/martin-luther-king-they-love/

[luee]

But in little more than a generation, Iran had changed from a traditional, conservative, and rural society to one that was industrial, modern, and urban.

Since the overthrow Iran under the Ayatollahs has become a rogue state promoting terrorism and seventh century xenophobia.

Iran had a lot of oil money coming in.
Too bad the Shah was a narcissistic autocrat who spent much of it on weapons and his family, ignoring the Iranian people.

Iran under the shah had some of the worst urban pollution in the world.
Corruption was rife with police often stopping motorists and extracting bribes.
The secret police tortured and killed (during a student uprising, some students were pushed off the top of those modern buildings).

Under the shah, Iran militarized rapidly spending huge some on weapons instead of people.  You don't think the shah was involved in terrorism?  He armed the Iraqi Kurds (with Soviet weapons Israel had captured to hide Iranian involvement) to destabilize Iraq.  And then tossed them aside to be slaughtered, as is often the Kurds fate.

And the US is often involved in terrorism (such as assassinating an Iranian General as he arrived in Iraq for talks) and backs coups and wars.  We're still fucking with Afghanistan 20 years after 9/11.  Israel bombs Lebanon and Syria at will, and assassinates Iranian scientists now and then.  As always, when the US or its allies (say Saudis or Israel) do something nasty its peachy keen, but awful when Iran or Russia does something very similar.

Victors write history.

What part of "death to America" don't you understand? Under the Shah Iran became the first Muslim country to recognize Israel, the first to allow women to become educated. The first to attempt to curb the power of the clerics, The first to advance a scientific education over dark age superstitions. The first to express admiration over the advances made in the west. Too much too soon for the primitives still caught up in promises of mass quantities of virgins and domination over infidels.

[bodiddley]

What part of "death to America" don't you understand? 

The part where you don't think it's a reasonable response to the US assassinating their democratically elected leader,
installing a brutal dictator for a generation, constantly slapping crippling sanctions on Iran, assassinating their scientists, doing all sorts of underhanded efforts to stop their
limited nuclear program while US ally Israel has impunity to produce 100 nuclear weapons, assassinating their general,
supporting Iranian rebel groups, etc.

Really there are a lot of areas where Iran and the US could work together, most notably stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq (the US and Iran did work together some
to end ISIS rule in Syria.  And working against Sunni fundamentalism in Iraq and Syria is another obvious area of cooperation.
Iran is also looking to modernize its oil industry and most of its industry, which the US could assist (and profit from) or at least get out of the way and
let Europe do business there.  That was the Obama vision, where Iran limits and allows intl inspection of its nuke program (which under int'l agreements it is allowed for research and medical purposes)
in exchange for more open trade.  The idea to get Iran hooked on modernizing and economic benefits of Western trade and then not want to risk losing that

[bodiddley]

Turkey was the first Muslim country to recognize Israel.  March 28, 1949.  Iran under the shah was the 2nd, March 14, 1950.

[LarryBnDC]

But in little more than a generation, Iran had changed from a traditional, conservative, and rural society to one that was industrial, modern, and urban.

Since the overthrow Iran under the Ayatollahs has become a rogue state promoting terrorism and seventh century xenophobia.

Iran had a lot of oil money coming in.
Too bad the Shah was a narcissistic autocrat who spent much of it on weapons and his family, ignoring the Iranian people.

Iran under the shah had some of the worst urban pollution in the world.
Corruption was rife with police often stopping motorists and extracting bribes.
The secret police tortured and killed (during a student uprising, some students were pushed off the top of those modern buildings).

Under the shah, Iran militarized rapidly spending huge some on weapons instead of people.  You don't think the shah was involved in terrorism?  He armed the Iraqi Kurds (with Soviet weapons Israel had captured to hide Iranian involvement) to destabilize Iraq.  And then tossed them aside to be slaughtered, as is often the Kurds fate.

And the US is often involved in terrorism (such as assassinating an Iranian General as he arrived in Iraq for talks) and backs coups and wars.  We're still fucking with Afghanistan 20 years after 9/11.  Israel bombs Lebanon and Syria at will, and assassinates Iranian scientists now and then.  As always, when the US or its allies (say Saudis or Israel) do something nasty its peachy keen, but awful when Iran or Russia does something very similar.

Victors write history.

What part of "death to America" don't you understand? Under the Shah Iran became the first Muslim country to recognize Israel, the first to allow women to become educated. The first to attempt to curb the power of the clerics, The first to advance a scientific education over dark age superstitions. The first to express admiration over the advances made in the west. Too much too soon for the primitives still caught up in promises of mass quantities of virgins and domination over infidels.

What part of torture, corruption and repression don’t you understand? Have you forgotten about SAVAK?

Here is a dispatch from the history as it happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1978/11/19/corruption-in-iran/2d168c93-2453-4bf2-8878-ed0d255a8496/


Gairy is a wanted man
Idi Amin is a wanted man
Shah of Iran tried so hard to survive
He too was wanted dead or alive

The Mighty Sparrow - ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’ 1979

[Hamilton Samuels]

Rand Paul, Coward.

https://www.rawstory.com/rand-paul-impeachment/

And still putting party over country.

[Kam]

How stupid Luee is to call Iranians primitive and ignore the brilliant American minds who were shouting “Hang Mike Pence” and “Kill Nancy Pelosi” a week ago.  Hang your head in shame you xenophobic ass.

[josh]

Victors write history.

You mean like the kindly Robert E. Lee who was opposed to slavery?

Maybe you mean the Rape of Nanking gentle, supportive occupation of part of China by the Japanese.

Luee, read some of the history of the time or the newspapers of the time. Try this:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/01/24/what-irans-revolution-looked-like-from-inside-the-shahs-palace/

[bambu.]

Aha, poetry:

My Christmas card:

A CHRISTMAS POEM
for my
HUSBAND
(aka Mr Right)

You say my bum
does not look big...
...and tell me lovely stuff!

You know that when
I say "I'm fine"
it means I'm in a huff!

It's true you are
my Mr Right
and really quite
a catch...
...and since I'm
MRS ALWAYS
RIGHT
we make the
PERFECT MATCH!

[josh]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/misinformation-dropped-dramatically-the-week-after-twitter-banned-trump/

Online misinformation about election fraud plunged 73 percent after several social media sites suspended President Donald Trump and key allies last week, research firm Zignal Labs has found, underscoring the power of tech companies to limit the falsehoods poisoning public debate when they act aggressively.

The new research by the San Francisco-based analytics firm reported that conversations about election fraud dropped from 2.5 million mentions to 688,000 mentions across several social media sites in the week after Trump was banned from Twitter.

And not just Twitter.

[bodiddley]

But in little more than a generation, Iran had changed from a traditional, conservative, and rural society to one that was industrial, modern, and urban.

The economic improvement justification for repression is an old and often ugly one.  Essentially every colonial power has used it to advocate their rapacious domination and abuse of poorer black and brown people.  China uses it to bolster its continued control over and sinoization of Tibet.   Hitler modernized and industrialized Germany and stabilized its economy in the 30's.  Etc.

If you can believe it some racist right-wing folks actually make the argument that hundreds of years of slavery was a good thing for Black American because today they are better off than most blacks living in Africa. 

[bambu.]

Only one voice allowed, with the others shut down by compliant media/big tech...already happening.
Any voices not of the left run out of town as "racist", "xenophobic", "Nazi", etc...looks so much like communist China it might as well be...and that's just the start.
With absolute political control, absolute media and social control, and the population disarmed, the leftist rule will be absolute.
Say anything against the ruling party and its administration,  your fate will not be pretty...unemployment leads to poverty....poverty leads to homeless...homeless leads to a miserable life and miserable death.

[josh]

Only one voice allowed, with the others shut down by compliant media/big tech...already happening.
Any voices not of the left run out of town as "racist", "xenophobic", "Nazi", etc...looks so much like communist China it might as well be...and that's just the start.
With absolute political control, absolute media and social control, and the population disarmed, the leftist rule will be absolute.
Say anything against the ruling party and its administration,  your fate will not be pretty...unemployment leads to poverty....poverty leads to homeless...homeless leads to a miserable life and miserable death.

So, you're saying that if I delete this, it will prove your point?

What does it mean if I don't delete it?

(p.s. "absolute political control" is even more of a myth in this country than "absolute security" is, and that one is huge.)

[kidcarter8]

Happy New Year. :-(

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-family-calls-officer-s-arrest-after-man-fatally-shot-n1254297

Asked for a mental health professional. Got an untrained for mental health policeman and a dead family member.

I'm questioning why they would call the police in the first place?

Who else would you call?  The Equalizer?